Free Full Geometry Testing - Page 4

kth286 · 06-11-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheels-inmotion

Yes and no...... Longitudinal the castor cannot make the tyre wear but as the steering is turned the castor position aids the camber migration (inner wheel toward positive, outer toward negative) if the castor is wrong then the migration will allow the cars weight to become outside of the steer axis and wear the tyre.

That's why I mentioned the roundabout.

R2D2 · 06-11-2009, 09:36 AM

Right, this morning I took the car for a test drive where I really tried to concentrate on how it felt and how it drove. My first impression was that things seemed "calmer", maybe somehow quieter and more stable. The car was easy to drive and handled evenly and predictably. I then started looking for drifting left. With even any touch on the steering wheel there was none, however, with the hands off the wheel the car did slowly drift left. I realised that whilst it was slightly drifting I was always on the left hand side of cambered roads. I tried the hands off approach on right cambered roads (!) and it will then drift slowly right. Basically I think the set up is pretty good, given that I'm not aware of any drift when I'm holding the steering wheel. the car seems "calmer" is the best way I can sum it up. Re the nitrogen in the tyres-could it be possible that there is less"bounce" noise when you hit holes in the road???

janner · 07-11-2009, 08:38 PM

Here's my experience of using Pro-tyre. I've had my W124 aligned four times now! Three in Plymouth and once in Tavistock.
Every time they got it wrong. I have adjustable rear camber arms and when you stand behind the car you can see one rear camber is wildly different to the other (thanks Dieselman for pointing it out).
Their equipment looks good and you get a flashy printout but the reality for me was they didn't have a clue what they were doing.
I think the problem is that you need a specialist alignment machine for MB cars (Hunter). The small holes between the wheel bolts on every Mercedes wheel are there to hold the alignment reflectors as shown in this picture.

Then I think you have to lock the steering box (on the W124) and use a spreader bar on the front to simulate the load underway.
Why are Mercedes so difficult to align properly?

Edit.. R2D2, I think Tyre-pro and Pro-tyre are different companies but they use the same equipment.

wheels-inmotion · 08-11-2009, 12:15 PM

The official anchor points for the MB wheel clamps is nothing more than protocol to initially centre the clamps before the real anchor system takes hold, that being the tyre "huggers", as seen in the image. BMW use the same procedure.

Dirt in the holes or a refurbished wheel belays the logic in this method since the clamps location would be comprimized? On a happy note the Hunter machine only needs the claps to be reasonably central since it's run-out compensation calibrates any errors.

Uberwagon · 09-11-2009, 05:07 PM

I had a few attempts at getting my car set up properly.

Only when I found the correct method on the internet and had the car weighted did I drive away witha car I was happy with, it was a night and day difference.

Understeer no more W124!

Dave!

wheels-inmotion · 09-11-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uberwagon

I had a few attempts at getting my car set up properly.

Only when I found the correct method on the internet and had the car weighted did I drive away witha car I was happy with, it was a night and day difference.

Understeer no more W124!

Dave!

There is logic to add weight but the MB target data assumes there's no weight added. For the modified car we may add weight and the track car always but not the stock if we are complying with OEM data.

BlackC55 · 09-11-2009, 09:32 PM

I am sure WIS states the car has to be weighted. I will check to see tomorrow. I maybe wrong??

kth286 · 10-11-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackC55

I am sure WIS states the car has to be weighted. I will check to see tomorrow. I maybe wrong??

Not the 124 - do not know about the others.

124 needs to have full tank petrol only and brake pedal pushed down with extender.

For toe, a spreader bar should be used and steering held in centre position according to markers on steering box.

Settings dependent on vehicle levels measured at axles.

ckember · 14-11-2009, 10:52 PM

Had mine done by STS in Hemel yesterday, full tank of fuel and kit in the boot, should have been £60 for the adjustment but they charged me £40 when I also bought some tyres for the rear. Had to return later as the printout they gave me was for a w204 even though as I watched they did select an s211 correctly. Just to be sure they rechecked the car and did find some errors from the morning. The printout and the display showed S211 E-T model, seems you need to select the t-model as the s211 is taken as being the w211 by default. this lead to very high king pin angles which could be costly to fix and not necessarily required

wheels-inmotion · 15-11-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckember

Had mine done by STS in Hemel yesterday, full tank of fuel and kit in the boot, should have been £60 for the adjustment but they charged me £40 when I also bought some tyres for the rear. Had to return later as the printout they gave me was for a w204 even though as I watched they did select an s211 correctly. Just to be sure they rechecked the car and did find some errors from the morning. The printout and the display showed S211 E-T model, seems you need to select the t-model as the s211 is taken as being the w211 by default. this lead to very high king pin angles which could be costly to fix and not necessarily required

STS use the Corghi machine so did they use all four cameras or just the front two and did they measure the castor angles?

ckember · 16-11-2009, 10:15 PM

all four I think they did castor, the printout is at home and I am away so dont have access right now to check

wheels-inmotion · 17-11-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckember

all four I think they did castor, the printout is at home and I am away so dont have access right now to check

I worked for STS for 25yrs, they are trained by skillnet and at the end of my employment i trained skillnet.... post your report mate and let's see how things have panned out.

ckember · 20-11-2009, 07:31 PM

SDorry for the delay, been away, here is the printout from the STS alignment last week, they checked the castor but I dont think they adjusted it.

welland99 · 20-11-2009, 11:40 PM

I got two new tyres on the front of my Honda Accord a couple of weeks ago and they advised me to get the front tracking checked and adjusted because the old tyres were more worn more on the inside edges than the outside.

Thing is, I had it checked before I had the tyres fitted as I knew any garage would advise the same. i borrowed a mates old fashioned alignment checker - the type which is a long bar with fingers that you touch up to the rims. This indicated that as near as could be measured the alignment was within tolerance and there was no detectable toe in or toe out.

In the end, the guy at the garage offered to do the checks for free with a laser device and he said that the left was out of alignment by 2 (degrees / minutes?) and the right was out by only 1. I didn't get the job done then because I was in a hurry and he couldn't do it right away.

Hearign people's experiences here, I don't feel that it is necessary to get it adjusted because the wear pattern showed a not too great wearing in the inside edges, and there is a chance that the mechanic might not do it very well anyway.

07-11-2009, 08:38 PM	#48
janner Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,348	Here's my experience of using Pro-tyre. I've had my W124 aligned four times now! Three in Plymouth and once in Tavistock. Every time they got it wrong. I have adjustable rear camber arms and when you stand behind the car you can see one rear camber is wildly different to the other (thanks Dieselman for pointing it out). Their equipment looks good and you get a flashy printout but the reality for me was they didn't have a clue what they were doing. I think the problem is that you need a specialist alignment machine for MB cars (Hunter). The small holes between the wheel bolts on every Mercedes wheel are there to hold the alignment reflectors as shown in this picture. Then I think you have to lock the steering box (on the W124) and use a spreader bar on the front to simulate the load underway. Why are Mercedes so difficult to align properly? Edit.. R2D2, I think Tyre-pro and Pro-tyre are different companies but they use the same equipment. Last edited by janner; 07-11-2009 at 08:43 PM.

09-11-2009, 05:07 PM	#50
Uberwagon Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2006 Car: 1991 500E Posts: 699	I had a few attempts at getting my car set up properly. Only when I found the correct method on the internet and had the car weighted did I drive away witha car I was happy with, it was a night and day difference. Understeer no more W124! Dave! __________________ Come the revolution all who appose it will know the wrath of the V8!

09-11-2009, 09:32 PM	#52
BlackC55 Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Horndean, Portsmouth, Hampshire, Southsea Car: C43 AMG with mods, ML270, Mk1 Golf cab. Mk1 Caddy fully restored 7.5T truck Rotax Max race Kart ETC Posts: 8,251	I am sure WIS states the car has to be weighted. I will check to see tomorrow. I maybe wrong?? __________________ Prestige car Service: I am listed here on MBClub please click to see services and discounts available.

14-11-2009, 10:52 PM	#54
ckember Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2005 Car: E320 CDI Sport Estate Posts: 603	Had mine done by STS in Hemel yesterday, full tank of fuel and kit in the boot, should have been £60 for the adjustment but they charged me £40 when I also bought some tyres for the rear. Had to return later as the printout they gave me was for a w204 even though as I watched they did select an s211 correctly. Just to be sure they rechecked the car and did find some errors from the morning. The printout and the display showed S211 E-T model, seems you need to select the t-model as the s211 is taken as being the w211 by default. this lead to very high king pin angles which could be costly to fix and not necessarily required __________________ current car E320 CDI sport Estate previous cars C270 CDI avantagrde sport estate Seat Alhambra 2.0T 20V Volvo V40 1.8 Mondeo 1.8 GLX estate Mondeo 1.6 GL estate( the first one in the country 1993) Cavalier 1.6GL Renault 21 savana Maestro 1.3L Cortina 1.6 GL MK V Firenza 1.3 HL Triumph 1300 Last edited by ckember; 14-11-2009 at 11:04 PM.

16-11-2009, 10:15 PM	#56
ckember Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2005 Car: E320 CDI Sport Estate Posts: 603	all four I think they did castor, the printout is at home and I am away so dont have access right now to check __________________ current car E320 CDI sport Estate previous cars C270 CDI avantagrde sport estate Seat Alhambra 2.0T 20V Volvo V40 1.8 Mondeo 1.8 GLX estate Mondeo 1.6 GL estate( the first one in the country 1993) Cavalier 1.6GL Renault 21 savana Maestro 1.3L Cortina 1.6 GL MK V Firenza 1.3 HL Triumph 1300

06-11-2009, 09:36 AM	#47
R2D2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast Threadstarter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,833	Right, this morning I took the car for a test drive where I really tried to concentrate on how it felt and how it drove. My first impression was that things seemed "calmer", maybe somehow quieter and more stable. The car was easy to drive and handled evenly and predictably. I then started looking for drifting left. With even any touch on the steering wheel there was none, however, with the hands off the wheel the car did slowly drift left. I realised that whilst it was slightly drifting I was always on the left hand side of cambered roads. I tried the hands off approach on right cambered roads (!) and it will then drift slowly right. Basically I think the set up is pretty good, given that I'm not aware of any drift when I'm holding the steering wheel. the car seems "calmer" is the best way I can sum it up. Re the nitrogen in the tyres-could it be possible that there is less"bounce" noise when you hit holes in the road???

08-11-2009, 12:15 PM	#49
wheels-inmotion Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 242	The official anchor points for the MB wheel clamps is nothing more than protocol to initially centre the clamps before the real anchor system takes hold, that being the tyre "huggers", as seen in the image. BMW use the same procedure. Dirt in the holes or a refurbished wheel belays the logic in this method since the clamps location would be comprimized? On a happy note the Hunter machine only needs the claps to be reasonably central since it's run-out compensation calibrates any errors.

20-11-2009, 11:40 PM	#59
welland99 Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Malvern Car: W210 E280 estate 1999 facelift; 6th gen honda accord coupe 2000 Posts: 308	I got two new tyres on the front of my Honda Accord a couple of weeks ago and they advised me to get the front tracking checked and adjusted because the old tyres were more worn more on the inside edges than the outside. Thing is, I had it checked before I had the tyres fitted as I knew any garage would advise the same. i borrowed a mates old fashioned alignment checker - the type which is a long bar with fingers that you touch up to the rims. This indicated that as near as could be measured the alignment was within tolerance and there was no detectable toe in or toe out. In the end, the guy at the garage offered to do the checks for free with a laser device and he said that the left was out of alignment by 2 (degrees / minutes?) and the right was out by only 1. I didn't get the job done then because I was in a hurry and he couldn't do it right away. Hearign people's experiences here, I don't feel that it is necessary to get it adjusted because the wear pattern showed a not too great wearing in the inside edges, and there is a chance that the mechanic might not do it very well anyway.

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