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Old 11-01-2017, 04:19 PM   #16
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Summer tyres on the E350, but I am retired so if I'm required to go out in the snow I will be using the wife's Aygo.

But mostly I will be staying at home in the warm.

I did go out a couple of years ago when I had the E300 Hybrid in the snow and ice, it was very scary, never again.


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Old 11-01-2017, 04:23 PM   #17
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However, if it snows heavily I'll be taking Mrs camerfodder's Toyota IQ as it has nicely siped tyres on it. The VW will be staying put. As others have said, its all about tyres.
Sipes aren't about snow grip but allowing the tyre to have a more flexible contact area - to deal with cold and wet roads.

A relative with a RR normally takes out his old Ford Fusion in bad conditions as it is smaller, lighter, and manual.

I suspect that it's also more expendable
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:42 PM   #18
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From personal experience SLK + snow + summer tyres = leave it in the garage. On winter tyres it will go anywhere providing its not bogging down in deep snow
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:19 PM   #19
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Sipes aren't about snow grip but allowing the tyre to have a more flexible contact area - to deal with cold and wet roads.
I know. The sipes are also there for when the snow gets packed, a bit like a Gecko's feet (not ideal analogy but best I could think of). I won't take a car out in a Colorado winter without them. Big tread pattern + sipes gives you your best chance. Beyond those its studs (not practical in UK or Colorado for that matter) or chains. I have a set of Pewag Austro Supers which are my final line of defence.

Last edited by camerafodder; 11-01-2017 at 05:26 PM. Reason: punctuation
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:28 PM   #20
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Sipes aren't about snow grip but allowing the tyre to have a more flexible contact area - to deal with cold and wet roads.
With respect, this is self contradictory. Sipes create a multitude of edges and corners to bite into the surface, which is exactly what gives you grip in packed snow (which is what you get the moment you drive over it)
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Last edited by Doodle; 11-01-2017 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:35 PM   #21
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With respect, this is self contradictory. Sipes create a multitude of edges and corners to bite into the surface, which is exactly what gives you grip in snow.
I'll repeat.

It's primarily about contact area and flexibility. People seem to get rather get caught up with the idea that it's primarily about snow grip. The actual principle of operation is based on improving contact against a normal surface in poor conditions.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:41 PM   #22
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That statement is nonsensical. One is the result of the other - flexibility, contact area (dictated by both size and compound) and biting edges give you friction against the surface, whatever that may be. Friction is grip.
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Last edited by Doodle; 11-01-2017 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:46 PM   #23
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The Scandanavians have a saying, and we all know they experience worse winters than ours...................

"Winter tyres first, 4WD second"

My CLK trounces 4WD's on summer tyres even from a standing start in 6" of snow.

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Old 11-01-2017, 05:47 PM   #24
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From personal experience SLK + snow + summer tyres = leave it in the garage.
Haha

My W204 C220CDI (which was an Elegance model on 16-inch Michelin Primacy's) was reasonable in snow, although if you had to stop on an upward gradient you were pretty much done for.

When my wife had her R171 SLK350 it was on 18-inch Michelin PS2's and I drove it in light snow. When I could actually get it moving it had the directional stability of a supermarket trolley and as a result any motion at all was pretty terrifying

By contrast, my W212 E350CDI on winter tyres was superbly driveable in snow

My E63 is currently on Michelin PA4's as an insurance against snow. So far it's working
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:06 PM   #25
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That statement is nonsensical. One is the result of the other - flexibility, contact area (dictated by both size and compound) and biting edges give you friction against the surface, whatever that may be. Friction is grip.
Biting edges can't give you grip against a surface.

The misunderstanding with sipes is about the way they work - people get caught up with the idea that the sipes themselves give grip or 'bite' - when it's about what the sipes allow the rubber (or tyre compound) to do in conforing with the contact surface.

It's a bit like the issue with tread - which is usually about dealing with surface water as opposed to providing actual grip or bite.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:17 PM   #26
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Biting edges can't give you grip against a surface.
Contact surface area of edge vs rounded object.
Assumption of incompressible surface, which it isn't, and the altering effect on the horizontal vector.

I can see I'm wasting my breath here...
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:20 PM   #27
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I can see I'm wasting my breath here...
Yes .... but you did mention friction at one point ..... so you get some of it.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:21 PM   #28
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Yes .... but you did mention friction at one point ..... so you get some of it.
More of it than you, it seems.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:26 PM   #29
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More of it than you, it seems.
Well *you* might blissfully think that.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:28 PM   #30
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I'm ok with that, as long as my university and employers keep harbouring the same blissful thoughts too.
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