Congestion Charge cameras ...... - MBClub UK

ceejaySL · 17-07-2007, 02:05 PM

....... being used to track terrorists by scotland yard.

Part of the data protection act is being waived to allow it.

A good use for the technology, or an infringement on civil liberties?

**BlackC55** · 17-07-2007, 02:09 PM

Good use. Anything should be allowd to catch and punish those bombers, including public stoning.

**Alfie** · 17-07-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceejaySL

....... being used to track terrorists by scotland yard.

Part of the data protection act is being waived to allow it.

A good use for the technology, or an infringement on civil liberties?

Without being at all political, I think if you have nothing to hide then why worry about being filmed. That said, I do think as a nation we have far too many cameras but I dont object to being filmed if I have nothing to worry about

. The only downside I can forsee would be being filmed having a crafty snog (or more

) with a woman but those days for me are a long time ago and it wouldnt have happened in a town centre anyway.

Benzowner · 17-07-2007, 03:07 PM

There are some who seem to have a phobia about cameras, maybe camera shy

Personally, I think everything possible should be used, not just to catch terrorists, but criminals as well.

R2e · 17-07-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceejaySL

....... being used to track terrorists by scotland yard.

Part of the data protection act is being waived to allow it.

A good use for the technology, or an infringement on civil liberties?

Question is - are they tracking terrorists or suspected terrorists? I guess that's where the civil liberties thing come in. Given the number of terrorist arrests and the small fraction of those charged, I can see the problem.

I'm not a fan of the "if you have nothing to hide" argument. Where do you stop - if you have nothing to hide you won't mind a policeman donning a rubber glove and sticking his hand up your nether regions to make sure you're not carrying drugs?

I have heard the nothing to hide argument used to justify ID cards. My argument is - why should I have to prove who I am at the whim of a policeman? And how will identity cards help the 'fight against terror'.

R2e · 17-07-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfie

....... The only downside I can forsee would be being filmed having a crafty snog (or more

) with a woman but those days for me are a long time ago and it wouldnt have happened in a town centre anyway.

Amen to that Alfie

But you've never snogged or more in a town centre? You've never lived

Flasheart · 17-07-2007, 03:36 PM

Another way that Ken is conning the public that the extension of the CC is for security and not about taxing the percieved richer areas of London.

I seem to recall that when the CC started it was claimed they couldn't be used to monitor /track vehicles.

Flasheart · 17-07-2007, 03:41 PM

For those in favour of the use of these cameras for catching terrorists and this is the thin edge of the wedge - does one assume they are also in favour of them being used to catch say speeders if the technology in them can in fact detect speed?

Once this all smacks of the same fear that the patriot act in the states has brought in.

The use of these cameras will not make us any more secure - if they know who the targets are there are better ways to track them. In the same way that additional security measures i have seen at LHR drop areas won't. But hey its a money and public perception thing rather than real security.

Rose Chap · 17-07-2007, 04:20 PM

Sensible words Flasheart. Slightly off topic, I was a bit alarmed when visiting the US recently that going through immigration I was required to have a picture taken and finger prints. How long will these fingerprints exist in a US database? I'm thinking indefinitely.

Catching terrorists is obviously a good thing, but lets not forget that an 80 odd year old pensioner who dared heckle the speaker was thrown out of the Labour Party Conference under anti-terrorism legislation...

jeremytaylor · 17-07-2007, 04:32 PM

This isn't the thin edge of the wedge. It's the thicker part of the wedge, with yet more to come!

Let us not forget that this democratic government of ours has banned peaceful protest within 1km of Westminster, amongst other things!!

I have symapthy with the agruement that 'if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear', but what happens when the computer says no, wrongly? Like the girl who recently had her car seized because the insurance didn't show on the database. The car was insured but the car was seized from her wrongly because the datdabase was wrong.

I would rather that the government proved my guilt, rather than me having to prove I'm innocent!

Flasheart · 17-07-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Chap

Sensible words Flasheart. Slightly off topic, I was a bit alarmed when visiting the US recently that going through immigration I was required to have a picture taken and finger prints. How long will these fingerprints exist in a US database? I'm thinking indefinitely.

Thats been happening for some time, but i do think there is a time limit to their being held, i can't find it right now. However it matters not for me as they already have my iris scans, finger prints, 3D modelling of my head and DNA data.

Bobby Dazzler · 17-07-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2e

I'm not a fan of the "if you have nothing to hide" argument. Where do you stop - if you have nothing to hide you won't mind a policeman donning a rubber glove and sticking his hand up your nether regions to make sure you're not carrying drugs?

Isn't being filmed something that is completely passive - that can be done as you go about your business without intrusion - and will only have implications should you do something wrong...

...where as the example you describe is far from passive and brings a literal meaning to the word intrusion!!

Howard · 17-07-2007, 06:10 PM

Slightly OT , but my mate has just got a biometric passport , with a little chip thingy in it ...

Whats on the little chip and how do they read it ?

Is it like the chip you inject into your dog so that when it's lost they can scan it and say 'Oh it's his !' ...

Flasheart · 17-07-2007, 06:38 PM

Its an RFID chip. The only biometric it has is a digital photo i believe, so they can compare what is on the chip, with the photo in the passport and you yourself. Unless you provide biometric data at the point of application, ie fingerprints, iris scans, DNA then there is none of that on the passport. So calling them biometric is a bit of a misleading statement. It is just an electronic equivalent of what is on the page in terms of name, DOB, etc.

I registered for the IRIS scanning scheme, and it takes about 30 mins to register whilst you are killing time post check in. But speeds up entry no end. No one is ever queuing for the IRIS system. You walk into the cubicle, look into the mirror, match your eyes to the two green ovals and Bobs your uncle.

kikkthecat · 17-07-2007, 07:05 PM

It's just another intrusion.

But because it has the word terrorism attached that makes it all alright and acceptable. Well it's not. I would like to be able to go about my day without many and various government agencies and public bodies tracking my every move. All the information gathered is stored somewhere and I dont know who has access to it, what they do with it and more importantly who they may sell it to. The DVLA will already sell your details to interested parties (finance companies, car park operators and such) so where is this information going to end up.
Most people simply dont realise just what information is stored about them or who stores it. Use something as harmless as a Nectar card, a record is kept of what you bought, what you paid, where you bought it along with your name and address. This is in addition to the shops records/receipt and being on CCTV at the counter. Why ?

There will be a bloke coming round your house soon to see what improvments you've made in order to reassess your council tax. Denying him access to your property will not an option.

There is a thing called privacy which we all used to have and innocent until proven guilty which some people think we've still got.

Wait until we have the black box in cars so every move it makes will be tracked. It's a safe bet it will be subject to the same conditions as a speeding ticket in that you will have to inform whoever wants to know just who was driving the car at any given time and declining to answer will be a criminal offence.

I'm all for catching criminals but I'm dead against being treated like one.

Why dont we just ban curtains and have done with it, after all if you've if nothing to hide blah di blah di blah

17-07-2007, 02:05 PM	#1
ceejaySL Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 92	Congestion Charge cameras ...... ....... being used to track terrorists by scotland yard. Part of the data protection act is being waived to allow it. A good use for the technology, or an infringement on civil liberties?

17-07-2007, 02:09 PM	#2
BlackC55 Authorised Forum Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Horndean, Portsmouth, Hampshire, Southsea Car: C43 AMG with mods, CLK55, C250TD, MK1 Caddy Posts: 14,178	Good use. Anything should be allowd to catch and punish those bombers, including public stoning. __________________ Olly Prestige car Service: I am listed here on MBClub please click to see services and discounts available.

17-07-2007, 03:07 PM	#4
Benzowner Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bristol Car: B180 CDi W245 in Silver Posts: 1,832	There are some who seem to have a phobia about cameras, maybe camera shy Personally, I think everything possible should be used, not just to catch terrorists, but criminals as well. Last edited by Benzowner; 17-07-2007 at 03:07 PM. Reason: spelling

17-07-2007, 04:32 PM	#10
jeremytaylor Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Surrey Hills Car: E280CDI Sport Est., CLK 200k Cab., VW T5 174, Citroen C8, and a 2CV! Posts: 2,416	This isn't the thin edge of the wedge. It's the thicker part of the wedge, with yet more to come! Let us not forget that this democratic government of ours has banned peaceful protest within 1km of Westminster, amongst other things!! I have symapthy with the agruement that 'if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear', but what happens when the computer says no, wrongly? Like the girl who recently had her car seized because the insurance didn't show on the database. The car was insured but the car was seized from her wrongly because the datdabase was wrong. I would rather that the government proved my guilt, rather than me having to prove I'm innocent! __________________ E280CDI Sport Estate CLK200K Cab E320CDI Avantgarde Est. Gone CLK 240 Cab. Gone C320CDI Avantgarde SE Est. Gone E320CDI Avantgarde Est. Gone C270CDI Avantgarde SE Est. Gone

17-07-2007, 07:05 PM	#15
kikkthecat Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: West Yorkshire Car: 2011 Viano 2.2 CDi Ambiente Posts: 1,183	It's just another intrusion. But because it has the word terrorism attached that makes it all alright and acceptable. Well it's not. I would like to be able to go about my day without many and various government agencies and public bodies tracking my every move. All the information gathered is stored somewhere and I dont know who has access to it, what they do with it and more importantly who they may sell it to. The DVLA will already sell your details to interested parties (finance companies, car park operators and such) so where is this information going to end up. Most people simply dont realise just what information is stored about them or who stores it. Use something as harmless as a Nectar card, a record is kept of what you bought, what you paid, where you bought it along with your name and address. This is in addition to the shops records/receipt and being on CCTV at the counter. Why ? There will be a bloke coming round your house soon to see what improvments you've made in order to reassess your council tax. Denying him access to your property will not an option. There is a thing called privacy which we all used to have and innocent until proven guilty which some people think we've still got. Wait until we have the black box in cars so every move it makes will be tracked. It's a safe bet it will be subject to the same conditions as a speeding ticket in that you will have to inform whoever wants to know just who was driving the car at any given time and declining to answer will be a criminal offence. I'm all for catching criminals but I'm dead against being treated like one. Why dont we just ban curtains and have done with it, after all if you've if nothing to hide blah di blah di blah __________________ RAY.F RUNNING IN.... PLEASE PASS

17-07-2007, 03:36 PM	#7
Flasheart Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2006 Car: W140 S500 Coupe Posts: 268	Another way that Ken is conning the public that the extension of the CC is for security and not about taxing the percieved richer areas of London. I seem to recall that when the CC started it was claimed they couldn't be used to monitor /track vehicles.

17-07-2007, 03:41 PM	#8
Flasheart Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2006 Car: W140 S500 Coupe Posts: 268	For those in favour of the use of these cameras for catching terrorists and this is the thin edge of the wedge - does one assume they are also in favour of them being used to catch say speeders if the technology in them can in fact detect speed? Once this all smacks of the same fear that the patriot act in the states has brought in. The use of these cameras will not make us any more secure - if they know who the targets are there are better ways to track them. In the same way that additional security measures i have seen at LHR drop areas won't. But hey its a money and public perception thing rather than real security.

17-07-2007, 04:20 PM	#9
Rose Chap Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridgeshire Car: W208 CLK Posts: 1,443	Sensible words Flasheart. Slightly off topic, I was a bit alarmed when visiting the US recently that going through immigration I was required to have a picture taken and finger prints. How long will these fingerprints exist in a US database? I'm thinking indefinitely. Catching terrorists is obviously a good thing, but lets not forget that an 80 odd year old pensioner who dared heckle the speaker was thrown out of the Labour Party Conference under anti-terrorism legislation...

17-07-2007, 06:10 PM	#13
Howard Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toad Hall Car: 2 x CLK 430 / 1 x A190 Posts: 16,469	Slightly OT , but my mate has just got a biometric passport , with a little chip thingy in it ... Whats on the little chip and how do they read it ? Is it like the chip you inject into your dog so that when it's lost they can scan it and say 'Oh it's his !' ...

17-07-2007, 06:38 PM	#14
Flasheart Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2006 Car: W140 S500 Coupe Posts: 268	Its an RFID chip. The only biometric it has is a digital photo i believe, so they can compare what is on the chip, with the photo in the passport and you yourself. Unless you provide biometric data at the point of application, ie fingerprints, iris scans, DNA then there is none of that on the passport. So calling them biometric is a bit of a misleading statement. It is just an electronic equivalent of what is on the page in terms of name, DOB, etc. I registered for the IRIS scanning scheme, and it takes about 30 mins to register whilst you are killing time post check in. But speeds up entry no end. No one is ever queuing for the IRIS system. You walk into the cubicle, look into the mirror, match your eyes to the two green ovals and Bobs your uncle.

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