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Old 27-12-2016, 04:59 PM   #31
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Spx,

Don't you know any women?
What does vexatious - "denoting an action or the bringer of an action that is brought without sufficient grounds for winning, purely to cause annoyance to the defendant" have to do with women?
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Old 27-12-2016, 06:48 PM   #32
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Lee, I believe Neil is saying women can be very vexing...eg the big fridge freezer your good lady wanted has caused you quite a degree of vexation
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Old 27-12-2016, 08:00 PM   #33
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The defendant in our case had a team of solicitors work on the case over 6 months and hired a barrister for the day in court. I was way of my depth but had spent a stack of time learning & preparing all our evidence & case. Was good experience & fun being a barrister for the day

As the county court hearing unfolded it was clear, although I'm sure the judge/court wouldn't admit but was on the side of the little man(me/us) in this case. Our big customer who didn't pay their bill ending up paying way over double than the original debt. Bonkers. I would not have done what they did in the same position. All I wanted was to be paid for the work & kit we had supplied and was not paid for. Nothing more nothing less.

I would say pay the 80% you agree you owe and let them argue about the 20%. Unless they are stupid, mental or blind rich it won't go any further.

Don't be afraid to stand up against being bullied around. First calI had from their solicitor partner/owner guy was funny. He talked over me & down to me expecting me to fall over. Obviously a well to do and academically educated man. I'm not well educated but broadly experienced enough & reasonably estute. I simply stated that I have no idea who you think you are but it isn't going to work that way. Pay your bill or I'll see you in court. It went to court!

Give people respect....but not too much if they don't earn it deserve it. I did even call the Director of the customer to tell him what was going on & advising him I would settle for a bit less prior to court. He ignored me & listened to his idiot solicitors who of course just sucked all his money up.
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:28 PM   #34
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you said you've recieved a county court claim, solicitors, barristers, costs etc arent relevant here. Go on the money claim website https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
and have a look at the claim process, see how much its cost him to put the frighteners on you and how to calculate the interest. As i said in one of my posts, dont ignore the claim esle he will get judgement by default.
From start to getting judgement to going to court it takes approx 6 months so theres plenty of time to explain why you believe your right to withhold 20% and show that youve tried to negotiate and make offers to settle.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:27 PM   #35
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you said you've recieved a county court claim, solicitors, barristers, costs etc arent relevant here. Go on the money claim website https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
and have a look at the claim process, see how much its cost him to put the frighteners on you and how to calculate the interest. As i said in one of my posts, dont ignore the claim esle he will get judgement by default.
From start to getting judgement to going to court it takes approx 6 months so theres plenty of time to explain why you believe your right to withhold 20% and show that youve tried to negotiate and make offers to settle.
To be honest at this point I would rather pay the original invoice in full - it's a business, and it is really not worth our while to fight this. So he gets away with it - wrong, but that's life.

My main issue is that I suspect the chap might still try and have his day in court simply in order to inconvenience us as much as possible... he submitted the claim only two weeks after the unpaid invoice was due, and he refused to re-invoice as per our request which would have seen him receive the 80% immediately. His manner is far from that of someone trying to make a reasonable effort to avoid litigation and reach an amicable resolution.

Also, having the notice served just before Christmas is not a coincidence. He most probably again tried to inconvenience us as much as possible.

Additionally the amount he is asking for as 'interest' is peculiar to say the least - I calculated it to be 124%(!) pa. Not sure if he made an honest mistake when calculation the interest (which should have been 8% pa) or there is some other reason for this.

In short, my difficulty is that I am not even sure that simply paying him now the original invoice in full will see an end to this saga.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:37 PM   #36
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You need to rest easy MJ, go get a decent Lawyer and place the matter in their hands. You may be surprised how after Lawyers have a chat amongst themselves things like this tend to disappear.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:49 PM   #37
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Unless it is for a decent amount of cash then a solicitor/lawyer is pointless and a waste of money IMHO. Pay the 80% or 100% and move on. Life is too short.

No need to pay any late payment admin fees or interest though as that is unreasonable & not valid or enforceable. Let them be & let them think they have won. The time/money spent oposing it is often recouped in future earnings much quicker.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:54 PM   #38
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Yes, but not if he doesn't want it to rest....?
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:55 PM   #39
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Lee, I believe Neil is saying women can be very vexing...eg the big fridge freezer your good lady wanted has caused you quite a degree of vexation
When I first read it I thought it would have something to do with Vixen but I'd never heard of that exact word, it looks to be a word to describe exactly one process; "bringing a spurious case" just doesn't cut it.

Great word anyway...
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:56 PM   #40
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How much does the 20% add up to? 100? 10,000?
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:32 AM   #41
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To be honest at this point I would rather pay the original invoice in full - it's a business, and it is really not worth our while to fight this. So he gets away with it - wrong, but that's life. That's your choice to pay but a wrong doesn't make a right? I would pay the 80% and explain why you did that on the court paper. Whatever you pay, you MUST return that court paper to the court. There is a section that you fill out explaining what you paid and make a comment why. When it's all sorted, He (the claimant) has to cancel the action else it will still show on some records.

My main issue is that I suspect the chap might still try and have his day in court simply in order to inconvenience us as much as possible... he submitted the claim only two weeks after the unpaid invoice was due, and he refused to re-invoice as per our request which would have seen him receive the 80% immediately. His manner is far from that of someone trying to make a reasonable effort to avoid litigation and reach an amicable resolution.

Also, having the notice served just before Christmas is not a coincidence. He most probably again tried to inconvenience us as much as possible. You can claim an extension of time by contacting the court, details will be on court papers. The court will grant this, usually another two weeks, no problem at all.

Additionally the amount he is asking for as 'interest' is peculiar to say the least - I calculated it to be 124%(!) pa. Not sure if he made an honest mistake when calculation the interest (which should have been 8% pa) or there is some other reason for this. I learnt on my first case that you have to get every detail correct so his error with the interest would trip him up

In short, my difficulty is that I am not even sure that simply paying him now the original invoice in full will see an end to this saga.
He has no case what so ever if you pay him in full. You can see from the link what it's cost him so far to bring this case to you. He can't claim that back at this stage so his loss.

You really do not need to waste more money getting legal advice. This process is very simple, It was designed to be such
---------------------------------------------------////////---------------------------------------------
Don't know what happened to my reply, some text is in your quote and some below so please see your quote

Last edited by addbuyer; 28-12-2016 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:37 AM   #42
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Your business insurance will have legal advice support and will most likely provide support.

I thought you needed to give someone 28 days in writing or via email before you move to this stage.

Hope you get it sorted
Just had a chat with the legal helpline provided through our insurer.

They will assist us in getting the deadline extended from 14 days to 28 days.

In the mean time we will need to decide if we just want general advise, which is available to us as part of the policy, or we want to make an actual claim on the policy in which case they will actually apoint a solicitor to defend the case for us.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:40 AM   #43
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How much does the 20% add up to? 100? 10,000?
I'd rather not go into detail here, but suffice to say that I am willing to pay the original invoice in full including the disputed amount IF this will bring the matter to an end.

As said my concern is the he will continue and chase his court fees and unrealistic 'interest', mainly in order to inconvenience us as much as possible.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:25 AM   #44
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I'd rather not go into detail here, but suffice to say that I am willing to pay the original invoice in full including the disputed amount IF this will bring the matter to an end.

As said my concern is the he will continue and chase his court fees and unrealistic 'interest', mainly in order to inconvenience us as much as possible.
Been there a few times and he will only be awarded the cost of bringing the action plus the interest up to and including the day of the hearing. It's calculated in person by the circuit judge. His over claiming will be ignored.
If you end it now by paying in full then his cost to bring the claim and his claim for interest is HIS loss. So say his invoice was for 10k and you pay him then he has to bear the 450 to issue you the papers and the small amount of interest.

If you know he is over claiming and can prove it via written documentation then fight it. It's an easy and straight forward process and he will only be awarded the actual works value (no interest, no travel cost and no cost of bringing the case) because he brought it against you without warrant
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:57 AM   #45
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Perhaps the best course might be to pay the full amount , with a covering letter to the effect that you consider the invoice excessive and are disputing the 20% overpayment .

If the matter still goes before the court , or mediation , you might be awarded the 20% back , with the contractor being stuck with the costs of his needless litigation .
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