9% of Daimler sold for $2.7billion

[Dryce]

http://news.google.co.uk/news/url?sa...26refer%3Dhome

[miro]

Screaming bargain. One of the great deals of this decade.


First they bankrupted the west with high oil prices and then they used those profits to buy assets cheaply. The middle-east money conspiracy is one of the most amazing push-pull stories of the modern era.

[Dryce]

Originally Posted by miro

First they bankrupted the west with high oil prices and then they used those profits to buy assets cheaply. The middle-east money conspiracy is one of the most amazing push-pull stories of the modern era.

My view is that the price was driven up by Chinese purchases combined with global (but primarily western) speculation.

The west bankrupted itself. (And for all its posturing China benefited from overspending by the west as it was one of the net recipients - as well as channelling funds *back* by lending it so that the west could spend more).

The failure in the Middle East is that they have insufficient internal investment opportunities to absorb their income from oil. Which is why they have to make foreign investments and they are so dependent on the west.

[miro]

Originally Posted by Dryce

My view is that the price was driven up by Chinese purchases combined with global (but primarily western) speculation.

The west bankrupted itself. (And for all its posturing China benefited from overspending by the west as it was one of the net recipients - as well as channelling funds *back* by lending it so that the west could spend more).

The failure in the Middle East is that they have insufficient internal investment opportunities to absorb their income from oil. Which is why they have to make foreign investments and they are so dependent on the west.

The Chinese are seeing no nett gain from their cash surplus. They had no options but to buy something. However, oil prices are controlled by supply and delivery. Surprisingly, thoses were held steady as speculative demand rose. It is impossible for the Chinese to drive up oil prices if the supply is increased to match demand. Not even the Chinese have that much money.

[grober]

2.7 billion should mean the top directors bonuses as safe for a few years then.

Seriously whether inviting influence from oil producing countries to the company board is necessarily a good thing. I can hear it now " No no we don't want be making environmentally friendly cars we want more 6.3 V8's can't we squeeze one into the new A class????

[Dryce]

Originally Posted by miro

It is impossible for the Chinese to drive up oil prices if the supply is increased to match demand. Not even the Chinese have that much money.

The prices were not driven by demand - but a over-confident delusion of demand.

That's what the markets do. This means that you can shift the market headline pricing significantly based on a small amount of money or a minor news item.

The Chinese in part set it off because for their own reasons they decided to increase their reserves. So a combination of a small but tanglibe % increase in forward demand combines with sepculators pouring in ended up with a price spike.

[hawk20]

Originally Posted by miro

Screaming bargain. One of the great deals of this decade.


First they bankrupted the west with high oil prices and then they used those profits to buy assets cheaply. The middle-east money conspiracy is one of the most amazing push-pull stories of the modern era.

First they did not bankrupt the West or anywhere else. The collapse of banking in the West was due to govts allowing an absurd property bubble to continue unchecked.

And whether or not the assets they have bought were 'cheap' ot not will take some long while to be sure about IMO.

As for the huge spike in oil prices that was, of course, caused by supply and demand with much of the demand coming from speculators.

[miro]

Originally Posted by Dryce

The prices were not driven by demand - but a over-confident delusion of demand.

That's what the markets do. This means that you can shift the market headline pricing significantly based on a small amount of money or a minor news item.

The Chinese in part set it off because for their own reasons they decided to increase their reserves. So a combination of a small but tanglibe % increase in forward demand combines with sepculators pouring in ended up with a price spike.

Demand is by definition the ability to obtain a good or service at a price. Now if a group of people collude to offer a fixed amount of product over a period of time then anyone who buys that product will be buying a fixed portion of supply. Therefore you can buy and sell that portion and if more people enter to purchasing equation the price goes up.

I really would have like to tell my fuel supplier that the price was imaginary but that wouldn't have got me anywhere.

[miro]

Originally Posted by hawk20

First they did not bankrupt the West or anywhere else. The collapse of banking in the West was due to govts allowing an absurd property bubble to continue unchecked.

And whether or not the assets they have bought were 'cheap' ot not will take some long while to be sure about IMO.

As for the huge spike in oil prices that was, of course, caused by supply and demand with much of the demand coming from speculators.

So you are telling me that the price of a consumable has no effect on the cashflow of households.

[hawk20]

Originally Posted by miro

So you are telling me that the price of a consumable has no effect on the cashflow of households.

Please feel free to quote exactly where I say that stupid remark and I will spank myself

[Dryce]

Originally Posted by miro

Demand is by definition the ability to obtain a good or service at a price. Now if a group of people collude to offer a fixed amount of product over a period of time then anyone who buys that product will be buying a fixed portion of supply. Therefore you can buy and sell that portion and if more people enter to purchasing equation the price goes up.

I really would have like to tell my fuel supplier that the price was imaginary but that wouldn't have got me anywhere.

And how exactly does this rebut anything I said other than the underlying intent.

I don't think the ME nations deliberately colluded to boost the price. They didn't attempt to restrain it but that's another matter.

AIUI China bought a lot of oil to bulk up its reserves. At the same time the economies in the west went screwy and the commodities funds and speculators piled in .

While this was going on the media and its commentators were assuring themselves that this increase was down to peak oil and anticipated increased sustained demand from the likes of China and India.


One of the nice things about futures is that you can genuinely hedge risk if you are dependent on a commodity.

The problem is that it allows commodities speculators who are not genuine consumers to buy into future supplies and create additional demand. Overconfidence stoked the price and created a massive bubble.

The rise sustained itself for long enough that genuine consumers had to start responding by hedging at higher prices. And so the spiral went up.

Unlike a genuine consumer the speculators end up having to close off their positions and put the commodity back on the market. Meanwhile genuine consumers had started reducing consumption in response to the price and the economy. The bubble burst.

[miro]

The entity buying the shares is from ....... ?

Even the Chinese are not that blatant.

[Dryce]

Originally Posted by miro

The entity buying the shares is from ....... ?

And your point is?

[miro]

Originally Posted by Dryce

And your point is?

Obvious.