COMAND version 10 upgrade

[Diesel Benz]

Originally Posted by verytalldave

I think when MB charge circa £200 for these update "latest" disks, the least they can do is ensure that the information IS as up to date as possible. Not be 4 years or more out of date.

I don't think MB can do a lot to improve this. It is the map data supplier that should take care of an up-to-date database. I don't think one can point another car brand (or even a standalone navigation device) using the same map supplier and equally new map DVDs would have better road coverage than MB. Selecting another map supplier can help at some locations but the other supplier would likely have better data for another location.

The problem really is to convince those map data suppliers to update missing streets or even roads.

[prprandall51]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

... The problem really is to convince those map data suppliers to update missing streets or even roads.

That's not the problem at all. I used to work for TeleAtlas and we had often had updates in our map database before the road had even been opened. For example, when the M4 / A34 junction was re-engineered, we had the data in our map-base derived from the Highways Agency's detailed engineering drawings before the junction itself was opened.

TelAtlas work closely with local authorities and government agencies including the Ordnance Survey to make sure their map data is bang up to date. The delays come in further down the line and are associated with any software and firmware updates that also reside on the disk and the unit manufacturer's -and MB's - own testing processes plus, I am sure the need to separate releases far enough apart for people not to always be "hanging on for the next release".

DVD distribution is a far from ideal mechanism for distributing map updates but, until the next technological step is made (over-the-air updates for example), I cannot see things changing.

[glojo]

Originally Posted by prprandall51

That's not the problem at all. I used to work for TeleAtlas and we had often had updates in our map database before the road had even been opened. For example, when the M4 / A34 junction was re-engineered, we had the data in our map-base derived from the Highways Agency's detailed engineering drawings before the junction itself was opened.

TelAtlas work closely with local authorities and government agencies including the Ordnance Survey to make sure their map data is bang up to date. The delays come in further down the line and are associated with any software and firmware updates that also reside on the disk and the unit manufacturer's -and MB's - own testing processes plus, I am sure the need to separate releases far enough apart for people not to always be "hanging on for the next release".

DVD distribution is a far from ideal mechanism for distributing map updates but, until the next technological step is made (over-the-air updates for example), I cannot see things changing.

When I complained to Navteq they stated they send updates to Mercedes-Benz on a very regular basis. I followedthat enquiry up with Mercedes-Benz and they stated they hold onto this mapping information and apply it the their updates which they fetch out two or three times a year. Are we suggesting that Mercedes remove some of this mapping information before writing the DVD's?

I do get tired when folks complain about Mercedes-Benzripping usoff regarding the price of these DVD's Yes they are blooming expensive... Yes Tom, Tom upgrades are cheaper but that is like saying a Mondeo is cheaper than a BMW

I used to have a Pioneer Navigation system that used Navteq mapping software. When I wanted the latest DVD it cost £360!!!!! Is that cheaper than a COMAND DVD?

I have now replaced that system to the laterst Kenwood system and that worked out even more expensive than COMAND and doesthat have all the bells and whistles that I have with the Mercedessystem.

BUT

The Kenwood system has prettier pictures

Do I prefer the pretty pictures (graphics) to all the options I have with COMAND? Of coursenot

I want the navigation system to give clear, concise instructions, but I would like to see the BMW Heads Up Display feature

I am told that linguatronic gives theCOMAND system full post code access

[seymansey]

The difference is a £99 Tom Tom does a better job, and is more portable

[saorbust]

Originally Posted by glojo

When I complained to Navteq they stated they send updates to Mercedes-Benz on a very regular basis. I followedthat enquiry up with Mercedes-Benz and they stated they hold onto this mapping information and apply it the their updates which they fetch out two or three times a year. Are we suggesting that Mercedes remove some of this mapping information before writing the DVD's?

I do get tired when folks complain about Mercedes-Benzripping usoff regarding the price of these DVD's Yes they are blooming expensive... Yes Tom, Tom upgrades are cheaper but that is like saying a Mondeo is cheaper than a BMW

I used to have a Pioneer Navigation system that used Navteq mapping software. When I wanted the latest DVD it cost £360!!!!! Is that cheaper than a COMAND DVD?

I have now replaced that system to the laterst Kenwood system and that worked out even more expensive than COMAND and doesthat have all the bells and whistles that I have with the Mercedessystem.

BUT

The Kenwood system has prettier pictures

Do I prefer the pretty pictures (graphics) to all the options I have with COMAND? Of coursenot

I want the navigation system to give clear, concise instructions, but I would like to see the BMW Heads Up Display feature

I am told that linguatronic gives theCOMAND system full post code access

It does yes - I have full post codes and its brilliant. Wouldn't say its the linguatronic though - think its more the HD system.

[Shude]

My comand 2.0 DX looks like it's being driven by a BBC Micro but it always gets me there!

Flashy graphics or typefaces do not actually improve the process of getting me from A to B so I don't worry about it. It does what it does with quiet competence

[glojo]

Originally Posted by saorbust

It does yes - I have full post codes and its brilliant. Wouldn't say its the linguatronic though - think its more the HD system.

I was talking about the earlier DVD based COMAND

It issilly to compare Tom Tom with COMAND,andI do wish folks would continually try.

The instant you compare appleswith apples,then COMAND is not therip off that some folksclaim.

If you want a basic navigational system, then Tom Tom is very good and I am criticising it. My Kenwood system uses Tom tom updates, but it was blooming expensive.

[Alfie]

Originally Posted by seymansey

The difference is a £99 Tom Tom does a better job, and is more portable

But it looks naff on the dash board, has wires trailling across the car, doesnt integrate with the steering wheel controls, doesnt integrate with the instrument cluster, doesnt contol an ipod, doesnt allow decent control of a phone through the cars head unit, doesnt control a CD changer, adds nothing to the saleability of the car and is easily stolen.

[Diesel Benz]

Originally Posted by prprandall51

That's not the problem at all. I used to work for TeleAtlas and we had often had updates in our map database before the road had even been opened. For example, when the M4 / A34 junction was re-engineered, we had the data in our map-base derived from the Highways Agency's detailed engineering drawings before the junction itself was opened.

TelAtlas work closely with local authorities and government agencies including the Ordnance Survey to make sure their map data is bang up to date. The delays come in further down the line and are associated with any software and firmware updates that also reside on the disk and the unit manufacturer's -and MB's - own testing processes plus, I am sure the need to separate releases far enough apart for people not to always be "hanging on for the next release".

DVD distribution is a far from ideal mechanism for distributing map updates but, until the next technological step is made (over-the-air updates for example), I cannot see things changing.

So are you claiming that a car manufacturer takes a few years old map database to their DVD? Or are you saying that they take a fresh snapshot of the data but it takes a long time from that snapshot before the DVDs reach shops? Of course it takes a couple of days or even a couple of weeks for the physical media to get into shops but that is nothing compared to the general DVD update rate or compared to those claims of roads missing for years.

I understand what you say and there is no reason to argue against that. The point is that even if most things are on the map in advance, those that do not get to the database for any reason, seem to remain missing for an unacceptable period of time.

I don't have examples of Tele-Atlas because my car is using Navteq and I've mainly followed their updates (on-line). The intention was not to compare Navteq with Tele-Atlas but to track how long it takes for a specific map detail to get into the map supplier database. Now that you perhaps claim that the delays are after this, we should track how long a change takes from the point it appears on the map supplier database until it appears on the car map DVD.

Actually I've seen Tele-Atlas covering our local road changes with less delay than Navteq. I've seen an example of a major road appearing on the database before the road has been released for traffic. This is good but but it does mean that all changes are there well in advance, unfortunately for some reason some changes seem to remain forgotten also from the actual database.

[prprandall51]

Originally Posted by Alfie

But it looks naff on the dash board, has wires trailling across the car, doesnt integrate with the steering wheel controls, doesnt integrate with the instrument cluster, doesnt contol an ipod, doesnt allow decent control of a phone through the cars head unit, doesnt control a CD changer, adds nothing to the saleability of the car and is easily stolen.

Yes, but at least the TomTom partially obscures your view of the road and potential hazards and also lights up your cabin at night like a searchlight so that you cannot see anything. Comand does neither of these things.

[prprandall51]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

So are you claiming that a car manufacturer takes a few years old map database to their DVD? Or are you saying that they take a fresh snapshot of the data but it takes a long time from that snapshot before the DVDs reach shops? Of course it takes a couple of days or even a couple of weeks for the physical media to get into shops but that is nothing compared to the general DVD update rate or compared to those claims of roads missing for years.

I understand what you say and there is no reason to argue against that. The point is that even if most things are on the map in advance, those that do not get to the database for any reason, seem to remain missing for an unacceptable period of time.

I don't have examples of Tele-Atlas because my car is using Navteq and I've mainly followed their updates (on-line). The intention was not to compare Navteq with Tele-Atlas but to track how long it takes for a specific map detail to get into the map supplier database. Now that you perhaps claim that the delays are after this, we should track how long a change takes from the point it appears on the map supplier database until it appears on the car map DVD.

Actually I've seen Tele-Atlas covering our local road changes with less delay than Navteq. I've seen an example of a major road appearing on the database before the road has been released for traffic. This is good but but it does mean that all changes are there well in advance, unfortunately for some reason some changes seem to remain forgotten also from the actual database.

Yes, well, I am not biased or anything, but Navteq were always ****.

[glojo]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

So are you claiming that a car manufacturer takes a few years old map database to their DVD? Or are you saying that they take a fresh snapshot of the data but it takes a long time from that snapshot before the DVDs reach shops? Of course it takes a couple of days or even a couple of weeks for the physical media to get into shops but that is nothing compared to the general DVD update rate or compared to those claims of roads missing for years.

I understand what you say and there is no reason to argue against that. The point is that even if most things are on the map in advance, those that do not get to the database for any reason, seem to remain missing for an unacceptable period of time.

I don't have examples of Tele-Atlas because my car is using Navteq and I've mainly followed their updates (on-line). The intention was not to compare Navteq with Tele-Atlas but to track how long it takes for a specific map detail to get into the map supplier database. Now that you perhaps claim that the delays are after this, we should track how long a change takes from the point it appears on the map supplier database until it appears on the car map DVD.

Actually I've seen Tele-Atlas covering our local road changes with less delay than Navteq. I've seen an example of a major road appearing on the database before the road has been released for traffic. This is good but but it does mean that all changes are there well in advance, unfortunately for some reason some changes seem to remain forgotten also from the actual database.

A few years ago I had the latest NAVTEQ upgrade disc for my Pioneer system and the latest disc for the COMAND. The M6 Toll Road had been opened for some considerable period of time and it was not on either.

Folks go on about how good brand 'X' is over brand 'y' but I tend to use thething as an aid and rely more on my mk I eyeball. It is quite common to see vehiclestrying to go the wrong way down a one way street which has been altered a number of years ago, but Tom Tom says it is the route so the route it is! As would NAVTEQ, or TeleAtlas based systems. I am sure that if the system told some folks to drive off the edge of a cliff.... They would do just that and then blame the system they had tried to use

[Diesel Benz]

Originally Posted by Alfie

But it looks naff on the dash board, has wires trailling across the car, doesnt integrate with the steering wheel controls, doesnt integrate with the instrument cluster, doesnt contol an ipod, doesnt allow decent control of a phone through the cars head unit, doesnt control a CD changer, adds nothing to the saleability of the car and is easily stolen.

Like said, it is a bit silly to compare TomTom and Comand but the list above isn't complete at all (I'm sure Alfie would have been able to make a full page list).

I thought this theft issue would not have been extremely significant until recently at our small town tens of cars were broken into if they had signs of an after market navigation unit. It was not sufficient if people had taken the actual device away, the presence of a window mount, or even the print of a window mount at the window was enough for the thieves. I guess they know that many just hide the "TomTom" somewhere in the car because they don't want to carry it all the time. And this happened in a town where cars are hardly ever a target for thieves.

TomTom gains from portability but it also suffers from that. The antenna isn't as ideally placed (not even with an external antenna with all the wires filling the cabin). And still it doesn't have the speed signal "wire" connected. It makes a difference when approaching turns specifically when GPS signal is not very accurate (usually happens when accuracy is mostly needed). Gyros are coming part of portable devices too but then we are not talking about a £100 device. TMC means another FM antenna wire hanging or GPRS connectivity (dependency on another device).

The new rules that prohibit glassmounts make an easy to follow installation almost impossible (we already have this rule in force and I've understood it spreading within EU).

I'd still consider TomTom well worth its cost but personally I feel the same about Comand. Personally I prefer mobile phone navigation applications better for portability making TomTom redundant for myself but I understand TomTom and similar being a better choice for someone else.

[Diesel Benz]

Originally Posted by prprandall51

Yes, well, I am not biased or anything, but Navteq were always ****.

I could admit being biased in favour of Navteq (not only because they supply the map data for my Comand) but this does not prevent me agreeing with your statement. (thought of putting a smiley here but in order to cover all aspects, I should have put all of them).

[SuffolkBenz]

I found a big improvement in 6.1 to 8.1- I have TMC which I think is invaluable