MB non compliance of BER

[television]

Mercedes along with Toyota, General Motors and Fiat have been accused of not giving information on repairs to independants so as to allow for the safe and cost efficient repairs.

[jaymanek]

yes and now they wont sell dip sticks to us!

but then to be fair they do allow us to have an EPC, WIS etc..

[crockers]

Originally Posted by jaymanek

yes and now they wont sell dip sticks to us!

but then to be fair they do allow us to have an EPC, WIS etc..

Is that ...perhaps...because they might employ them....

[DansSlk]

I think to be fair the site MB have for indy's is not half had.

You have EPCnet, WISnet and ASRAnet.

You also have the facility to order a Star Diagnose and all the workshop/special tools, its got the TIPS that contains the technical repair information.

It's even got the digital service booklet.

I think its more a case of them not making it easy for indy's to get access

[Diesel Benz]

How about prices compared to other brands?

[DansSlk]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

How about prices compared to other brands?

http://workshop.aftersales.daimlerchrysler.com

See for yourself, i think they are undercharing for EPC and overcharging for WIS.

You pay normal prices when your order an SDS and they also give you CBT for training, the SDS of course allows for SCN coding that's so important now.

[Diesel Benz]

Originally Posted by DansSlk

http://workshop.aftersales.daimlerchrysler.com

See for yourself, i think they are undercharing for EPC and overcharging for WIS.

You pay normal prices when your order an SDS and they also give you CBT for training, the SDS of course allows for SCN coding that's so important now.

I know the MB prices but I don't know what others ask for similar support?

[DansSlk]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

I know the MB prices but I don't know what others ask for similar support?

Ah OK mate well its about the same as BMW and Porsche.

The only thing i like about BMW's setup is that if you don't have the group tester they have an app for you to download and use with a pass-thru to diagnose all the control units your also able to change basic coding (reset adaptions and similar) and flash the TCU and ECU, they charge next to nothing for the service and its available to anyone even a private user.

We have the GT's at work so we don't need it but i have a mate who uses it on his BM's at home.

Porsche provide basic tech info free but thats more for the home user in a shop you really need the PWIS and charges for that are in-line with the other makes, one thing i like about Porsche and BM is you don't have to be a shop to register its no concern of ours because we are a shop but i think its nice that they allow the end user to get involved and especially giving them the facility to diagnose the car's themselves without having to seek a dealer or indy with the tools.

[Mr E]

As BER formed a major part of my life for a couple of years, I thought I'd have a look at the EU documentation....

Seems, in the case of DC, that the OEM has fallen foul in a few "technical" areas:

1. Detailed info on recalls;
2. Detailed info on best practice and quickest-route-to-fix;
3. Only providing access to work procedures and parts catalogues on a "whole" basis rather than on an "as needed" basis;
4. Not providing reset codes for ECUs, or unlock codes for electronic systems relating to safety and performance.

I'm not sure how much of a real issue this addresses - the documentation makes much of independent repairers who do one-off jobs or offer limited services having to buy full access to data which cannot be offset against a larger number of jobs. I'm not sure how many places fall into that category...

As an aside, the documentation makes a quick comment that in the UK authorised dealers charge up to 120% more than an independent service outlet, whilst in Germany the average markup is 13%

[television]

Originally Posted by Mr E

As BER formed a major part of my life for a couple of years, I thought I'd have a look at the EU documentation....

Seems, in the case of DC, that the OEM has fallen foul in a few "technical" areas:

1. Detailed info on recalls;
2. Detailed info on best practice and quickest-route-to-fix;
3. Only providing access to work procedures and parts catalogues on a "whole" basis rather than on an "as needed" basis;
4. Not providing reset codes for ECUs, or unlock codes for electronic systems relating to safety and performance.

I'm not sure how much of a real issue this addresses - the documentation makes much of independent repairers who do one-off jobs or offer limited services having to buy full access to data which cannot be offset against a larger number of jobs. I'm not sure how many places fall into that category...

As an aside, the documentation makes a quick comment that in the UK authorised dealers charge up to 120% more than an independent service outlet, whilst in Germany the average markup is 13%

Thank you for the feedback with more detail. Parts of this works hand in hand with the Block Exemption as too who makes what and for who, this would give one the opportunity to purchase spare parts not only at a better price but also know that that part was suitable and approved for your car.

In answer to apart of this, some manufactures have responded by charging the same price as the local indie within a certain mileage range for the same job

[grober]

Originally Posted by DansSlk

http://workshop.aftersales.daimlerchrysler.com

See for yourself, i think they are undercharing for EPC and overcharging for WIS.

The MB owner gets easy access to the EPC = MB UK get to sell you PARTS?

The MB owner gets easy access to the WIS = MB UK lose out on servicing revenue?

You will also notice that in the "small print" on the website "Parts and Information is made available to you via Snap On Business Solutions Ltd" and not Daimler AG

Makes perfect sense to me

[Diesel Benz]

Originally Posted by Mr E

As BER formed a major part of my life for a couple of years, I thought I'd have a look at the EU documentation....

Seems, in the case of DC, that the OEM has fallen foul in a few "technical" areas:

1. Detailed info on recalls;
2. Detailed info on best practice and quickest-route-to-fix;
3. Only providing access to work procedures and parts catalogues on a "whole" basis rather than on an "as needed" basis;
4. Not providing reset codes for ECUs, or unlock codes for electronic systems relating to safety and performance.

I don't see why MB could be blamed not providing good info for independents on quickest-route-to-fix when nothing better is available for their own shops

The ECU updates and everything related to emissions are restricted with SCN because of current EU and US laws.

But MB does appear to make the life of independent shops difficult. I guess the dealers then can sell cars with lower profit? Don't know how it would otherwise make any sense, if it does as it is.

[DansSlk]

Originally Posted by grober

The MB owner gets easy access to the EPC = MB UK get to sell you PARTS?

The MB owner gets easy access to the WIS = MB UK lose out on servicing revenue?

You will also notice that in the "small print" on the website "Parts and Information is made available to you via Snap On Business Solutions Ltd" and not Daimler AG

Makes perfect sense to me

Your right that does make sense but that info is not for MB owners only indy's unless you happen to be VAT registered of course and then your welcome to sign up, i do know however that they are planning on making EPC and WIS available without one so hopefully they are going the way of BMW.

It's not always been Snap-On thats a recent (few months) change

[DansSlk]

Originally Posted by Diesel Benz

I don't see why MB could be blamed not providing good info for independents on quickest-route-to-fix when nothing better is available for their own shops

The ECU updates and everything related to emissions are restricted with SCN because of current EU and US laws.

But MB does appear to make the life of independent shops difficult. I guess the dealers then can sell cars with lower profit? Don't know how it would otherwise make any sense, if it does as it is.

They give you the same access the dealers have so long as your prepared to pay a premium for it.

SCN coding is of course available once you buy a SDS from them but thats no excuse for not providing other ways of updating control units, as i said BMW have found a way to do it (also available for the car owner should they want to use it)and they are subject to the same rules.

We are just lucky we can afford to purchase the SDS but its not exactly cheap and a lot of shops won't be able to afford it and that puts them at a real disadvantage.