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Old 25-11-2016, 09:04 AM   #31
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TBH when I purchased mine it really did not occur to me that I may be killing people, I assumed that the car was compliant and suitable for use.

Each week we seem to have experts advising us that one thing or the other is bad for us then changing their minds a few weeks later.

The most destructive thing on the planet is the human race which seems to be increasing at an alarming rate and consuming the planets resources but no one dare suggest we procreate less.


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Old 25-11-2016, 09:23 AM   #32
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The most destructive thing on the planet is the human race which seems to be increasing at an alarming rate and consuming the planets resources but no one dare suggest we procreate less. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
China did. That's a fair chunk of the world.
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:26 AM   #33
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I know this has been discussed within many other threads, but I still fail to understand why people continue to buy new diesel powered cars. I'm not really interested in whether or not they cost less to run (debatable) or provide greater torque (not something that most drivers will appreciate). My worries are over the now much publicised health concerns.

I can perhaps understand why reading something like this "A Mercedes Benz CLA (2.1l) diesel emitted 8-12 times the limit on the road" (https://www.theguardian.com/environm...official-limit) has little influence on buyers' decisions. For most I suspect the reaction is "So what?". But why oh why do people ignore the often repeated headline:

"Diesel pollution blamed for 12,000 early deaths a year" (Diesel pollution blamed for 12,000 early deaths a year | News | The Times & The Sunday Times)

"Almost 12,000 people a year die prematurely in Britain because of exposure to nitrogen dioxide (NO2), which is largely produced by diesel engines, the European Environment Agency (EEA) said."

Don't the people who buy new cars ever take notice of these warnings? Or is it just that they don't care about anyone else? Don't they realise that they're also putting the lives of their loved ones at risk? Or is it simply that they don't think about such things, preferring instead to concentrate solely on their own pockets?

I've heard all the excuses such as "The CO2 levels are lower in diesels so fit within my company car limits", or "The manufacturers don't provide enough choice of petrol cars", or "People die from drinking, smoking and all sorts of other things". To me, they all sound like shrugging shoulders - "Not my problem"

So is that it? People just don't care!
Surely if emissions are such a worry, you would be driving a much smaller engine car / hybrid / EV or even better, riding a bicycle instead of going for the 350 petrol?
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:38 AM   #34
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It's a pretty simple rule of thumb really, in todays world of conflicting realities :-- people who tell you awkward or unpleasant things--- stuff that's difficult to deal with ---are probably telling you the truth. People who tell you stuff that makes you happy--- that everything's fine ---- the stuff you want to hear--- are usually lying- to you and maybe to themselves.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:09 AM   #35
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It's a pretty simple rule of thumb really, in todays world of conflicting realities :-- people who tell you awkward or unpleasant things--- stuff that's difficult to deal with ---are probably telling you the truth.
Except when it comes to statistics .... which aren't always what they seem - particularly when quoted with no supporting context.

Some things are inconsistent. As I stated previously we are bombarded with health messages which strongly suggest public health is getting worse but at the same time life expectancy has gone up and they've used this to bump up retirement age.

I have no doubt that pollution from diesels can be harmful to some people - but I also have been bombarded by messages backed by a taxation regime that tell me that petrol engines prodice to much globally harmful CO2.

Meanwhile if I care to look behind some of the statistics it looks like buses may well be one of the worst offenders when it comes to air quality.

So why does nobody question their use? Or tax the bus companies to move them to electric.. And why does a significant % of the ppupulation get encouraged to use them with discounted or free travel.

So sometimes it's not about good or bad news - but the way the truth or real mechanisms are just ignored - while the PC liberal elite that know better focus on what is so unthinkingly obvious to them and assume that we shouldn't think and accept it because they do.

Maybe if there was a bit more intellectual honesty and less of an air of righteousness then the real truth - bad or good news - would be better understood and acted on.
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Last edited by Dryce; 25-11-2016 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:24 AM   #36
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Some procreate less (afluent indigenous individuals in Western societies) while some procreate more (everyone else) - this won't reduce the number of people on the planet, just change the demographics.

Unfortunately those who are in decline are also those who care most about the environment.
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Old 25-11-2016, 11:14 AM   #37
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A report from the PC liberal elite who tell you stuff you don't want to hear
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/file/291...token=fV_ubz8n the short version
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/file/291...token=NZzDVymh
the long version

PLUS

a heartfelt apology from VW
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Old 25-11-2016, 11:31 AM   #38
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Unfortunately those who are in decline are also those who care most about the environment.
I'm not sure I understood that.

My view is that people in Elysium have the resources to squander and make esoteric choices at the same time lament. Those on the other side of the divide don't have the resources to make choices and no time to lament.
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:25 PM   #39
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Odd question. For most people diesel is the best compromise between power and economy. Resale is good so lease costs are affordable. I'm sure for most new car buyers that's as far as they look and why not. As the roads get more and more congested in the South East where I live it becomes more and more irrelevant what engine you have as you aren't going anywhere hence the 220d to commute. Luckily I can afford to have the SL63 for weekends but it's uneconomic otherwise.
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:27 PM   #40
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I've got an E220D on order for March delivery (and I'm not an OAP!). The main reason for buying diesel is that there's so little choice; I was brought up on petrol cars, but there are very few petrol competitors in that segment. I looked hard at the Lexus GS, but it just didn't appeal; the cvt gearbox does not belong in the luxury sector, and the rear legroom is minimal. Couple that with the low residuals, and you'd have to be a real tree hugger to choose that. There are BMW 5 series petrol models, but I currently drive a 520 D, and one reason I'm changing is the appalling service from my local BMW dealer. Again, there's also the issue of residuals - BMW dealers just tell current owners that there's no demand for the petrol versions.

Most of the other marques only offer petrol as performance variants - which is not what I'm looking for.

What am I meant to drive other than diesel if I want to stay in the executive sector?
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:30 PM   #41
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I know this has been discussed within many other threads, but I still fail to understand why people continue to buy new diesel powered cars. I'm not really interested in whether or not they cost less to run (debatable) or provide greater torque (not something that most drivers will appreciate). My worries are over the now much publicised health concerns.

I can perhaps understand why reading something like this "A Mercedes Benz CLA (2.1l) diesel emitted 8-12 times the limit on the road" (https://www.theguardian.com/environm...official-limit) has little influence on buyers' decisions. For most I suspect the reaction is "So what?". But why oh why do people ignore the often repeated headline:

"Diesel pollution blamed for 12,000 early deaths a year" (Diesel pollution blamed for 12,000 early deaths a year | News | The Times & The Sunday Times)

"Almost 12,000 people a year die prematurely in Britain because of exposure to nitrogen dioxide (NO2), which is largely produced by diesel engines, the European Environment Agency (EEA) said."

Don't the people who buy new cars ever take notice of these warnings? Or is it just that they don't care about anyone else? Don't they realise that they're also putting the lives of their loved ones at risk? Or is it simply that they don't think about such things, preferring instead to concentrate solely on their own pockets?

I've heard all the excuses such as "The CO2 levels are lower in diesels so fit within my company car limits", or "The manufacturers don't provide enough choice of petrol cars", or "People die from drinking, smoking and all sorts of other things". To me, they all sound like shrugging shoulders - "Not my problem"

So is that it? People just don't care!
What do you think of the responses so far then?
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:34 PM   #42
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I've got an E220D on order for March delivery (and I'm not an OAP!).
What am I meant to drive other than diesel if I want to stay in the executive sector?


Tesla S. Stunning car, well made (lots of Mercedes interior parts) very very quick and sure footed.
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:58 PM   #43
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Tesla S. Stunning car, well made (lots of Mercedes interior parts) very very quick and sure footed.
Nowhere for an overnight charging point.
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Old 25-11-2016, 01:10 PM   #44
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Nowhere for an overnight charging point.


Buy a better house then! Lol
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Old 25-11-2016, 01:10 PM   #45
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Surely if emissions are such a worry, you would be driving a much smaller engine car / hybrid / EV or even better, riding a bicycle instead of going for the 350 petrol?
Best response so far...

Let him who is without sin etc....
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