MB cannot accept responsibility if you use Summer Tyres below +7C

[DavidT99]

All this talk about winter tyres and how a 2 wheel drive car with winter tyres is better than a 4 wheel drive car with summer tyres is tosh. I have had a number of 4x4's all fitted with summer tyres and can tell you I have never had a problem with traction. In fact I suspect that a premium brand summer tyre on a 4x4 will have more grip than a budget or midrange winter tyre on a 2x4.

My only caveat is that my experiences have been with Jeep Grand Cherokees with their excellent Quadratrac and Quadradrive systems, the jury is still out on what my ML will be like on summer tyres.

David

[prprandall51]

Ok. This thread clearly has some legs in it and I am likely to be receiving email notifications about it for some time still to come.

Therefore, would a Moderator / Administrator please, please, please edit the thread title to spell "accept" correctly?

It is starting to hurt my eyes.

[Sp!ke]

Originally Posted by DavidT99

All this talk about winter tyres and how a 2 wheel drive car with winter tyres is better than a 4 wheel drive car with summer tyres is tosh. I have had a number of 4x4's all fitted with summer tyres and can tell you I have never had a problem with traction. In fact I suspect that a premium brand summer tyre on a 4x4 will have more grip than a budget or midrange winter tyre on a 2x4.

How wrong you are...

You may have more forward traction than a 2WD car BUT

Your 4WD with summer tyres will have the same or perhaps worse stopping capability than a 2WD car with summer tyres in the snow. All cars use 4 wheels to stop.

Are you really trying to submit that summer tyres work as well as winter tyres in the snow?

[Goldfish11]

Originally Posted by Goldfish11

I have a set of 17inch 245 45 17 Michelin Primacy Alpins in the garage which came off my W211 and I need to sell as they will not fit on my new Car. Only used last winter so still loads of tread will do a good few more seasons, turned the 211 into a 4x4 in the snow, I never had so much fun and infact my vehicle was one of the only to get off the street beating people with 4x4s but with nice summer tyres fitted PM if your interested.

Just got my tyres down from the garage loft and out of the nice bags Costco packed them in. Turns out they are not Primacy but Pilot. 245/45 R 17 99V MO Michelin Pilot Alpin (So you can drive in snow at 150mph and with the 99 weight rating fill an E Class with lead I would think.) According to my tyre depth gauge 8mm of tread and that after using them for one season I wish I had a car to put them on Anyway will do a classified advert and see if I can get someone interested.

[DavidT99]

Originally Posted by Sp!ke

How wrong you are...

You may have more forward traction than a 2WD car BUT

Your 4WD with summer tyres will have the same or perhaps worse stopping capability than a 2WD car with summer tyres in the snow.

Are you really trying to submit that summer tyres work as well as winter tyres in the snow?

No.......I am saying that summer tyres on a 4x4 can work as well as winter tyres on a 2x4. This is of course assuming that driving styles are adjusted to take into account the weather conditions.

David

[Sp!ke]

Originally Posted by DavidT99

No.......I am saying that summer tyres on a 4x4 can work as well as winter tyres on a 2x4.

But I have just explained to you how flawed your argument is. A 4x4 only gives you some advantage over a 2WD car when trying to gain forward momentum.

When stopping, a 4x4 doesnt have any such advantage, in fact the extra weight and higher centre of gravity gives it a disadvantage.

This is a common mistake of the 4x4 driver and is the reason why you so often see them in ditches when the conditions are bad.

There is no way on earth that a 4x4 with summer tyres can be as safe as a 2WD car with winter tyres in the snow.

It may well get up an incline that an incorrectly shod 2WD car cant, but it sure as hell wont stop any easier on the downward side of the hill.

[Goldfish11]

What drives me mad is the myth propagated by the UK media that you need a 4x4 to get around in the winter. Our local radio station was asking for people with 4x4's to pull people off a local hill. They were all sliding as bad as the cars because they had "SUMMER TYRES".

If 4x4 were the only and best way to get around in cold conditions then every car in Norway and Sweden would be a 4x4 but strangely you hardly see them because the sensible Scandinavians know that putting a decent set of winter tyres on a car means they can go just about anywhere they want.

On the plus side I know that most LandRover products come fitted with M+S tyres as standard.

And of course, a 4x4 with the right tyres will have greatly increased capability compared with a standard car. But they must have the right tyres.

The only cars trashed last winter on our street were all 4x4, the weight and stopping seemed to be the issue and over confidence of the drivers.

Sorry I am getting emotional about this, end of rant.

[SPX]

Just to throw my twopence in about 4x4s, in the winter of 2009/10 I had the misfortune to own a 2006 Mitsubishi L200 and it had summer Tyres on.

It coped rather well with the snow of that year (about 1' deep at times) and the numerous occasions that we went off-roading in it.

In fact, it never once got stuck or struggled, which was also partly down to the low-range box as well.

[st4]

Originally Posted by sweetpea

Just to throw my twopence in about 4x4s, in the winter of 2009/10 I had the misfortune to own a 2006 Mitsubishi L200 and it had summer Tyres on.

It coped rather well with the snow of that year (about 1' deep at times) and the numerous occasions that we went off-roading in it.

In fact, it never once got stuck or struggled, which was also partly down to the low-range box as well.

I can see where Sp!ke is coming from. I ran a BMW X54.4i over a winter period. Great thing, bags of ground clearance and good traction.

On a downhill slope it took some stopping but I didn#t care, anything car wise I would hit would come off worse and the speed I was doing 20mph would mean the biggest thing would be bruised, would be my ego.

Even with wintert tyres, ground clearance is an issue, and my 211 really does not have that much of that

[DavidT99]

Originally Posted by Sp!ke

But I have just explained to you how flawed your argument is. A 4x4 only gives you some advantage over a 2WD car when trying to gain forward momentum.

When stopping, a 4x4 doesnt have any such advantage, in fact the extra weight and higher centre of gravity gives it a disadvantage.

This is a common mistake of the 4x4 driver and is the reason why you so often see them in ditches when the conditions are bad.

There is no way on earth that a 4x4 with summer tyres can be as safe as a 2WD car with winter tyres in the snow.

It may well get up an incline that an incorrectly shod 2WD car cant, but it sure as hell wont stop any easier on the downward side of the hill.

You may have a valid point in part but taking all things into consideration, the tyres, the ground clearance and the driver then IMO a 2WD car with winter tyres will not always be better in snow than a 4x4 with summer tyres. However in light snow I concede that the winter tyre shod 2WD car should have better stopping distance due to the tyres and the generally lower weight of the car.

Personally I think all vehicles sold in the UK should come with all season tyres fitted as standard and there should be a lot more of these tyres available at a reasonable cost. I personally think upwards of £250 a tyre for a 265/45R20 is way too much.

David

[st4]

Originally Posted by DavidT99

Personally I think all vehicles sold in the UK should come with all season tyres fitted as standard and there should be a lot more of these tyres available at a reasonable cost. I personally think upwards of £250 a tyre for a 265/45R20 is way too much.

David

I don't think for such a large wheel thats a bad price actually....

[DavidT99]

Originally Posted by st4

I don't think for such a large wheel thats a bad price actually....

I'm a cheapskate though and always want things for less than advertised. You wouldn't believe the struggle I had with MB when I bought the ML, talk about reluctant to haggle.

David

[st4]

Originally Posted by DavidT99

I'm a cheapskate though and always want things for less than advertised. You wouldn't believe the struggle I had with MB when I bought the ML, talk about reluctant to haggle.

David

So am I. I don't even bother getting a hair cut.

However, 20 inch wheels, I'd not have optioned them on an ML. 18s, tyres are a fair bit cheaper. Mid range tyres for the shed (Khmuo KU39s) £110 each from camskill....

[DavidT99]

Originally Posted by st4

So am I. I don't even bother getting a hair cut.

However, 20 inch wheels, I'd not have optioned them on an ML. 18s, tyres are a fair bit cheaper. Mid range tyres for the shed (Khmuo KU39s) £110 each from camskill....

I agree, 20" wheels on an ML or any 4x4 are not ideal and I would have prefered 18" or but I couldn't find an ML320 Sport anywhere with 18" wheels. In fact can you get 18" wheels on an ML even if you bought new?

David