190e Will not Start - Help Please - Page 2 - MBClub UK

martyz · 09-04-2012, 11:55 AM

Ok, just a thought, under the throttle body there is a hose that runs to the idle control
valve (aux air device) has it come off? this can give the symptom you describe.

gbjeppm · 09-04-2012, 11:55 AM

Hi DM

No markings on the BERU dizzy, so have assumed it is the same as the bosch one i took off, and aligned the same.

1,3,4,2 going clockwise.

Dieselman · 09-04-2012, 11:57 AM

You mentioned the rotor arm alignment.
Theoretically it can't be wrong as it should click into place on a keyway.

Will · 09-04-2012, 12:02 PM

It goes clockwise

gbjeppm · 09-04-2012, 12:51 PM

Photo as requested by Will

grober · 09-04-2012, 01:36 PM

Assuming the timing is not 180 degrees out then you could try the old pros' trick of slacking off the distributor locking bolt slightly and try slowly rotating the distributor body adjustment while an assistant turns over the engine on the starter. When the timing hits the " sweet spot" the car should start. 2 things to watch-- try to insulate your hands from the HT and watch not to get caught in any of the moving parts at the front of the engine while doing this.

Sp!ke · 09-04-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grober

Assuming the timing is not 180 degrees out then you could try the old pros' trick of slacking off the distributor locking bolt slightly and try slowly rotating the distributor body adjustment while an assistant turns over the engine on the starter. When the timing hits the " sweet spot" the car should start. 2 things to watch-- try to insulate your hands from the HT and watch not to get caught in any of the moving parts at the front of the engine while doing this.

Or go buy a cheap strobe light and check the timing properly.

Looking at the shiny bits in the picture, it looks like it may have rotated a bit. Not sure that the locking bolt was ever undone though. Could it have turned when the distributor cap broke up?

Failing that, the leads must be on the wrong way still.

Will · 09-04-2012, 01:44 PM

The TDC mark you are looking for on the crank pulley should look pretty much like this:

Align the O/T marker with the pin on the front of the engine.

The take another pic of the distributor/rotor arm.

It looks 'about' right for TDC - but could be 180 degrees out from when it was removed. Once the engine is correctly at TDC we can see whether it's accurate or not.

Will

Dieselman · 09-04-2012, 01:45 PM

Did the o/p remove the distributor or just the cap?

Will · 09-04-2012, 01:47 PM

He removed the distributor.

martyz · 09-04-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grober

Assuming the timing is not 180 degrees out then you could try the old pros' trick of slacking off the distributor locking bolt slightly and try slowly rotating the distributor body adjustment while an assistant turns over the engine on the starter. When the timing hits the " sweet spot" the car should start. 2 things to watch-- try to insulate your hands from the HT and watch not to get caught in any of the moving parts at the front of the engine while doing this.

That will only work onTSz ignition,I assume OP has EZL in which case it won't
make any difference.

Will · 09-04-2012, 02:07 PM

That's right - you can't adjust the firing point with EZL, but the rotor arm still has to be in the right position for distributing the spark to the cap.

EZL provides the spark at the right time and adjusts the timing advance/retard under various conditions, but the rotor arm and cap still need to be in the right place at the right time to transfer HT to the leads

Will · 09-04-2012, 02:13 PM

This might be useful for anyone who'd like to know a bit more about how the EZL system operates

http://www.w201club.com/forum/index....ype=post&id=54

Will

martyz · 09-04-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will

That's right - you can't adjust the firing point with EZL, but the rotor arm still has to be in the right position for distributing the spark to the cap.

EZL provides the spark at the right time and adjusts the timing advance/retard under various conditions, but the rotor arm and cap still need to be in the right place at the right time to transfer HT to the leads

Agreed, as already mentioned set TDC,then align rotor arm with mark on distributor (slot on distributor body) may take a few attempts as the helical
gear on the distributor will move the position of the rotor arm when engaging ,.
align mark to centre of rotor contact.

gbjeppm · 09-04-2012, 03:36 PM

So i went for the grober approach of trial and error, and twisted the rotor arm one notch at a time , no27 inch socket to turn the crank was the main issue.

She now runs, albeit very roughly, but she is alive.

Will now try it 180 degrees opposite.

Thanks so far for all advice.

09-04-2012, 11:55 AM	#16
martyz Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Forest Car: '99 S202 '91 W201 Posts: 1,003	Ok, just a thought, under the throttle body there is a hose that runs to the idle control valve (aux air device) has it come off? this can give the symptom you describe.

09-04-2012, 11:55 AM	#17
gbjeppm Hardcore MB Enthusiast Threadstarter Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Surrey Car: W166, ML 250 Cdi Sport, W208 CLK320 Cabriolet Posts: 1,163	Hi DM No markings on the BERU dizzy, so have assumed it is the same as the bosch one i took off, and aligned the same. 1,3,4,2 going clockwise.

09-04-2012, 11:57 AM	#18
Dieselman Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2003 Car: Peugeot 403 Convertible Posts: 28,804	You mentioned the rotor arm alignment. Theoretically it can't be wrong as it should click into place on a keyway.

09-04-2012, 12:02 PM	#19
Will Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Surrey Car: 2001 CLK55 AMG / 1999 E320T Avantgarde / 1988 190E 2.3-16 Manual / 1988 190E 2.5-16 Manual Posts: 8,617	It goes clockwise

09-04-2012, 01:36 PM	#21
grober Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Perth, Scotland Car: W204 C200CDI Estate Posts: 14,447	Assuming the timing is not 180 degrees out then you could try the old pros' trick of slacking off the distributor locking bolt slightly and try slowly rotating the distributor body adjustment while an assistant turns over the engine on the starter. When the timing hits the " sweet spot" the car should start. 2 things to watch-- try to insulate your hands from the HT and watch not to get caught in any of the moving parts at the front of the engine while doing this.

09-04-2012, 01:44 PM	#23
Will Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Surrey Car: 2001 CLK55 AMG / 1999 E320T Avantgarde / 1988 190E 2.3-16 Manual / 1988 190E 2.5-16 Manual Posts: 8,617	The TDC mark you are looking for on the crank pulley should look pretty much like this: Align the O/T marker with the pin on the front of the engine. The take another pic of the distributor/rotor arm. It looks 'about' right for TDC - but could be 180 degrees out from when it was removed. Once the engine is correctly at TDC we can see whether it's accurate or not. Will

09-04-2012, 01:45 PM	#24
Dieselman Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2003 Car: Peugeot 403 Convertible Posts: 28,804	Did the o/p remove the distributor or just the cap?

09-04-2012, 01:47 PM	#25
Will Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Surrey Car: 2001 CLK55 AMG / 1999 E320T Avantgarde / 1988 190E 2.3-16 Manual / 1988 190E 2.5-16 Manual Posts: 8,617	He removed the distributor.

09-04-2012, 02:07 PM	#27
Will Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Surrey Car: 2001 CLK55 AMG / 1999 E320T Avantgarde / 1988 190E 2.3-16 Manual / 1988 190E 2.5-16 Manual Posts: 8,617	That's right - you can't adjust the firing point with EZL, but the rotor arm still has to be in the right position for distributing the spark to the cap. EZL provides the spark at the right time and adjusts the timing advance/retard under various conditions, but the rotor arm and cap still need to be in the right place at the right time to transfer HT to the leads

09-04-2012, 02:13 PM	#28
Will Hardcore MB Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Surrey Car: 2001 CLK55 AMG / 1999 E320T Avantgarde / 1988 190E 2.3-16 Manual / 1988 190E 2.5-16 Manual Posts: 8,617	This might be useful for anyone who'd like to know a bit more about how the EZL system operates http://www.w201club.com/forum/index....ype=post&id=54 Will

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09-04-2012, 03:36 PM	#30
gbjeppm Hardcore MB Enthusiast Threadstarter Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Surrey Car: W166, ML 250 Cdi Sport, W208 CLK320 Cabriolet Posts: 1,163	So i went for the grober approach of trial and error, and twisted the rotor arm one notch at a time , no27 inch socket to turn the crank was the main issue. She now runs, albeit very roughly, but she is alive. Will now try it 180 degrees opposite. Thanks so far for all advice.