Sat Nav

[mr. shr]

Hi,
I've just tried installing an APS30 unit into my CLK (W208). The radio worked ok but the sat nav seemed to have problems. It was receiving between 5 and 6 satellites but the system never really seemed to know where it was. Every time I selected a nearby street, it would calculate a route and then as I'd start following the commands it never seemed to update itself. For some reason, wherever I went, it still thought I was on the street where I started the journey. (i.e. the road I live on).
I've taken it out and put my Audio 10CC back in.

I appreciate that a stealership has to code the unit but does that really have that much of an effect on the operation of these units? Does anyone know how to resolve this problem?

Any help/advice will be gratefully received.
Thanks

shr

[robertjary]

Hello,

I've recently installed the APS30 into my W210 E Class. For the navigation to work, it needs both GPS infomation and a speed signal (on connector A, pin 1). Without the speed signal, the unit will not work. It will continue to work, however, without GPS information (as long as you stay on the road). It uses a gyro and the speed signal to calculate your position when no GPS is received. You can check the operation of the gyro by going to test mode. Press 'destination', then press soft keys 2 and 7 (press and hold 2 and then press 7). This gets you to the diagnostic mode. Then select 'sens'. This display will then show the gyro information, together with the speed signal counter (rad). Driving just a few metres should change these values.

Regards, Robert

[mr. shr]

Hi Robert,
I believe we've chatted before regarding this sat nav issue. I can't believe what I've done. I thought there was a wire going into connector A1. Turns out there isn't. I always thought the speed signal was conected as my Audio10 gets louder when I increase speed.

When I compare the existing pin out to that in this link:

http://www.beckerelectronics.com/1492.html

I find that there are some significant differences. I need to take the unit back out and have a proper look at the actual connections.

Do you know if the pin out on this link is acurate?

Alternatively, where can I get a FULL description of how to find these wires in my car? (When I say FULL description, I mean some kind of guide called, "Finding Speed Signal in a Benz for Dummies!!!") :o

Any ideas?

Thanks.

shr

[Shude]

Do you know if the pin out on this link is acurate?
That diagram is perfect if your car manufacturer has strictly used the ISO layout. Sadly, these days some cars roll out of the factory with ISO plugs and wires in the wrong place (everyone boo at Audi, VW and Vauxhall!). AFAIK mercedes tend to have the wires in the right places where applicable, but all-too-often they are missing a wire or two (like speed pulse in some cases). In these cases you have to find those wires elsewhere!

[mr. shr]

I've just spoken to the guy selling me this unit. He said that in his car, connector block A has seven of the eight slots used on the block. Mine only has about four!!!! I'm in the process of getting some removal keys so I can have a proper look at which pins are used and which are blank.

I've heard that the speed signal runs down the passenger sill. Is that true of all MB cars, and how do you remove the sill? Can't see any screws and don't wanna pull it too hard because, well because it's my Benz!! :)

Cheers

shr

[robertjary]

Hello,

The link below has information regarding the speed signal for most cars, including the CLK.

http://www.delta-autotronics.com/Speedsensors.htm

Regards, Robert

[mr. shr]

Thanks Robert.
Apparently the signal is under the passenger footwell or in the driver's sill.
Is there a technique for removing the sill?

No prizes for guessing what I'll be trying to do this weekend!!!

[robertjary]

Hello,

On my W210, I just pulled (moderately hard) on the plastic sill cap - pull up from the rear (there's a clip at the front that will snap off if you start at the front) and when its mostly free, pull backwards. I've no idea if it's the same on the CLK.

Good luck

Regards, Robert

[mr. shr]

OK I'll give it a go!! I'll try the passenger footwell first because I'm hoping that will be earier to get into. (Probably wont be now that I've said that!!)

But even on the slim chance that I do find this signal, how do I tap into it? Is it ok to create some kind of junction and split the signal in a T or has it got to come from the source? I'm just worried about draining the signal such that it ends up not being strong enough to do what it was originally intended to do (prior to tapping into it).

[craigyb]

It's very easy to find once you know where to look. I found mine on my 2000 CLK and tapped into it.

Look for a thread on flat battery CLK command and it should have the description from Steve ML about which wire is the speed pulse.

[craigyb]

Here you go....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Green Wire C2 pos 6 = for speed pulse =D connector at/to pass side A pillar & look for a green/black wire in a 8 pin blue coloured connector.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Craig

[mr. shr]

I'm confused!!
Are you saying that the speed signal goes into connector C on the new head unit? I though it goes to connector A in position 1.

Or are you saying that the speed signal wire is located in a connector labelled C in the passenger side pillar?

Thanks

shr

[miro]

Hi,
I've just tried installing an APS30 unit into my CLK (W208). The radio worked ok but the sat nav seemed to have problems. I

Any help/advice will be gratefully received.
Thanks

shr


Attached is the Benz workshop solution. One more file to come. Since you already have a GPS signal you may ignore the instructions on how to fit an antenna to the roof of your car.

[miro]

Image of where the speed signal is.

[craigyb]

Im just saying that is where the cable is located.

The pin is for a command.

Craig

[mr. shr]

I think I've found the speed signal. How can I test that it's the right one before I go to the effort of wiring it in? Was thinking of connecting a multimeter to it and taking the car for a drive. Should I see a pulsed output or something?

Thanks

shr

[robertjary]

Hello,

Unfortunately, a multimeter won't respond fast enough for you to see the pulses at even just a slow speed. An oscilloscope or logic probe (set to CMOS) would allow you to see these pulses. Typically, there are 48 pulses per revolution of the wheel. If you only have a multimeter, then all I can suggest is that you move the car exceptionally slowly. You may just see the low and high parts of the speed signal, otherwise, you'll just read a voltage of approx 6V. When you stop, you may catch the signal during its high phase (12V). the low phase will measure about 0V.

I used an oscilloscope to check the signal before connecting to the APS30.

Best regards, Robert

[mr. shr]

My scope is mains powered!!!! Will try and get my hands on a logic probe. Otherwise, I'll have to use my multimeter. Just to make matters worse, it's digital so probably wont see it change at all!!

Thanks

shr

[miro]

I think I've found the speed signal. How can I test that it's the right one before I go to the effort of wiring it in? Was thinking of connecting a multimeter to it and taking the car for a drive. Should I see a pulsed output or something?

Thanks

shr

At least with MB you can go by wire colour. For now anyway.

[mr. shr]

Popped into a Dealership yesterday to try and get hold of some connecting pins to wire the speed signal through. Whilst their, I asked them to have a quick look under the car to see if they could see any oil leaking as I've spotted a couple of patches on my driveway.
It turns out that I have two leaks!!! One from the gear box and one from the rear diff. They say the O rings on the box need replacing which isn't that big a job, but to reseal the diff, they have to remove the whole thing. About four hours work in total!!!

As soon as they told me, I saw my project of installing sat nav fly straight out of the window!!! That annoys me considering all the help and advice I've received from you good people on this forum.

I'm booked in to have the work done on Friday so depending on the cost of the repair, I shall have to see whether I can justify having sat nav too. :mad:

[andy_dutch]

Hi, I'm a new member. :rock: My first post!! - First thing I looked for on the site was this one!! - I have a W208. Funny thing is, its regd '99 but its the Facelift model? (came straight from Germany brand new) - Anyways, I took the MB Audio 10 cassette deck out and had the new Pioneer Avic-X1 http://www.pioneer.nl/nl/product_detail.jsp?product_id=7308&taxonomy_id=25-112 It was professionally put in but the guy couldnt find the speed signal on it - He thought that the wires were green/violet on the audio connecters. But couldnt find them? - Its been in 4 weeks now and is just relying on GPS. I SOOOOO want the speed signal on too. - You guys got the best way for me to get it hooked up? - I've read everyones post but I am still stuck? - Thanks guys! ;o)

[mr. shr]

Hi,
I've just had a quick look at that Pioneer link. That is one seriously nice piece of kit!!! Makes the APS30 unit I'm going for look a bit bland!!

Anyway, I still haven't hooked up the speed signal but I will be doing it shortly. (Girlfriend is going away this weekend so perfect opportunity!!! :D )

I know how you feel when it comes to looking for this speed signal. The signal that I am going to use is the Green with Violet cable located on the passenger side of the car. (Being in the UK, my passenger side is on the left. I assume it's a mirror image for you? Not sure about that though).

OK so remove the sill and the plastic side plate in the passenger foot well. You'll see a whole load of trunkin with flip top lids. Flip open the last couple of sections to reveal a whole load of cables. On my car, I found a light blue connector with 10 chambers. I think three of the chambers have a cable going into it. Two of these three have a cable coming out of it (i.e. the other side of the connector block).

The one cable (of the three going into the block) is coloured Green with Violet.

I jacked up the front left wheel and connected a voltmeter to this Green/Violet cable. Then, with the ignition in position 2, I slowly turned the wheel by hand and watched the voltmeter. It did seem to change voltage as I turned the wheel. Now, I was using a digital meter so it's not really conclusive that the meter is switching or pulsing between 0V and 12V. It would probably be better if I'd used an analogue meter.

Anyway, this is the signal that I'm going to use. I'm only assuming it's correct but can only confirm when I actually connect it to the APS30 unit, which I don't have at the moment.

Obviously, I cannot guarantee that the same is true for your car. For example, the light blue connector in my car may not be light blue in yours, etc. But hopefully, the info here should give you some reference.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers.

shr

[steve_bcs]

Hi, I'm a new member. :rock: My first post!! - First thing I looked for on the site was this one!! - I have a W208. Funny thing is, its regd '99 but its the Facelift model? (came straight from Germany brand new) - Anyways, I took the MB Audio 10 cassette deck out and had the new Pioneer Avic-X1 http://www.pioneer.nl/nl/product_detail.jsp?product_id=7308&taxonomy_id=25-112 It was professionally put in but the guy couldnt find the speed signal on it - He thought that the wires were green/violet on the audio connecters. But couldnt find them? - Its been in 4 weeks now and is just relying on GPS. I SOOOOO want the speed signal on too. - You guys got the best way for me to get it hooked up? - I've read everyones post but I am still stuck? - Thanks guys! ;o)


If your'e still stuck, try a Pm to forum Member craigyb who has posted instructions earlier in this thread, or Paul Grainger - they found the speed signal in their 208 facelift in the front passenger sill / A Pillar its usually a green/black wire. Everything you need to know is right here on the forum. its a topic that's been covered many times .

try this thread speed signal wire pics (http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=736&highlight=speed+signal)

[steve_bcs]

Hello,

You can check the operation of the gyro by going to test mode. Press 'destination', then press soft keys 2 and 7 (press and hold 2 and then press 7). This gets you to the diagnostic mode. Then select 'sens'. This display will then show the gyro information, together with the speed signal counter (rad). Driving just a few metres should change these values.



I couldnt get that diagnostics menu up on mine. I pressed both keys but nothing happens. does it matter how long you hold the 2 before holding down the 7? I tried various other combinations to no avail. Am I doing something wrong?

[robertjary]

You need to first press 'Destination', so that you're on the page which has 'Country' on the top line, 'Town' on the middle line and 'Street' on the bottom line. Then press softkey 2 and while holding this down, press softkey 7. You should now get to the diagnostic mode.

Regards, Robert

[steve_bcs]

You need to first press 'Destination', so that you're on the page which has 'Country' on the top line, 'Town' on the middle line and 'Street' on the bottom line. Then press softkey 2 and while holding this down, press softkey 7. You should now get to the diagnostic mode.

Regards, Robert


Thanks, I'll have another go in the morning .

[steve_bcs]

I must have had brain fade .. I was pressing 2 & 6 yestreday . anyway diagnostic menus work now.

Trouble is I cant get the unit to register any satellites. My b2 registers 5 0r 6 so I spliced the MB antenna cable into the B2 GPS antenna . Got 4 up on APS then after soldering the connections down to zero again.
So i cut the wires and remade them without soldering for now . Same story - B2 is fine APS zero sats.

The antenna is magnetised to a metal bracket immediatley below the foam dash behind the sunglasses box on my 129 SL so should be ok. I know the antenna is ok cos the B2 works & I know the APS is ok cos it reads sats from the antenna in my other car that has a becker traffic pro. weird. I dont really want the antenna on the dash top. any ideas anyone?

[andy_dutch]

Thanks Guys, you've been great help! - Mr. Shr, I live in Wakefield, West Yorkshire UK - Mines a right Hand drive too! ;o)

So should I check the sill or the pillar then?

[robertjary]

Hello Steve,

From a cold start (initial installation) it can take, perhaps up to 1 hour for the APS30 to first find all available satellites. Subsequently, mine takes 5-10 minutes to find about 7 satellites after starting. It uses the gyro to work out your position till its found enough satellites. It's never found more than 8.
In my E class, the front screen is metallised, so I'm using an external GPS antenna at the moment. I have a replacement MB roof antenna which I hope to fit in the next few weeks.

Regards, Robert

[mr. shr]

andy_dutch, sorry your name made me assume you are outside of the UK.

You need to look in the pillar but will need to remove the sill in order to access the pillar. You're looking for an blue eight pin connector (not ten, like I said in my last post). There are four wires going into this plug, (not three). They go into chambers 5,6,7 and 8. (Chamber 1-4 are blank). In chamber 5 is a green/violet cable and this is the speed signal from the front passenger wheel. That's what I'm going to use.
In chamber 6 is the green/black cable that everyone on this forum mentions. (I think this is the front drivers' side wheel) The thing is, there is already a cable connected to the other end of the green/black cable so I don't want to touch it. The green/violet one is blank so I think it's better to use that (unless anyone knows of a reason why I shouldn't use this??)

[steve_bcs]

Mr Shr

have you seen this post by Miro - showing a WIS image of the OEM speed signal wire in a 208 - its green/violet so you should be ok.

Speed signal - look for Miros post (http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4430&page=1&pp=10)

[mr. shr]

Thanks Steve_bcs, yes I did see that as it is also contained within this thread too. (I think it's on page 1).
I've also been to a MB Dealership and the guy in the workshop called up the exact same document when I quized him on which wire to look for. So good on Miro for supplying that. Very knowledgeable guy!!

[steve_bcs]

Finally got my APS30 to respond to the GPS antenna - but had to place it on the dash after all. In the centre of the dash I got 10 satellites within 5 mins- never got that before even with the roof mount on the ML.

I didnt want it in the middle of the dash so moved it to the left corner - gets between 5 & 7 there .

I am amazed that the APS 30 I have is so sensitive to the antenna position. no probs with covert antenna with comand or the APS I fitted to MErcmanuks 203 C class.

I am still sharing the antenna with the Origin B2 and that is ok too.

anyway, jobs done & thanks for all help received.