The Turbo Thread.

[Koolvin]

I am dedicating this page to my Turbo Installation:

here is the kit all laid out:

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/turbo.jpg

It is a second hand mosselman turbo kit that was on a C220 in the USA that had done 8K+ miles.

The turbo was brought back by me from california in the plane. The compressor blades were damaged and some threading on the oil feed pipes on the turbo were cross threaded. After consulting our inhouse turbo specialist:Mark300SL, he advised that I send it for an overhaul. I have packaged it up and its awaiting pickup from my house.

Mark300SL has offered his help and expertise with fitting the kit, which he and I will undertake after christmas at his place

so here are the steps completed so far:

1. Bring back the Turbo kit to the UK
2. Send it to Vince @ TurboShop (http://www.turboshop.ltd.uk)

Stay tuned peeps!!!

http://www.mosselmanturbo.com/logo.gif

[Koolvin]

Update:

The turbo is in the workshop being stripped down! these guys are quick !:rock:

[Maz]

What engine is it going onto?

180?

Also what will it bring power upto?

Im seriously interested for when it get the merc, because its VERY slow :D

[Koolvin]

depends what you set the boost to ;)

C180 has about 122BHP as standard and if you set it to 0.4 it is claimed to give an extra 50 Horses, I am not sure if that is at crank or at wheels. so your awnser is : 172BHP doesnt sound that good but I am told that the Torque will be worth it alone! I also read somewhere that acceleration would be quicker from 30-80mph(or 60 cant remember) than a C280 running at 0.4.

I might be daring and set it to 0.5 or maybee even 0.6 which should bring it around the 200BHP mark. Speaking of Mark, Mark300SL may want to elaborate or clear this up as he is the expert on turbo systems... or should that be expert on lunatic turbo modding...:devil:

What am I hoping to achieve by this? well hopefully it will make my car much pleasurable to drive and give it the oomph that my car really needs... not to mention bragging rights oh and the Tshhhhhh of the dump valve will be worth it alone :)

The turbo kit I have is extremely expensive if you was to buy it new, infact installed and fitted you could probably buy a C180 for the same money LOL

[fuzzer]

Quote
The turbo kit I have is extremely expensive if you was to buy it new, infact installed and fitted you could probably buy a C180 for the same money LOL


Will be good when its done dude... :bannana: :bannana:

[Koolvin]

supply and fit I mean : jetlag.

[Dave Elcome]

How much is your insurance going up by???

[Koolvin]

Quote (Dave Elcome @ Dec. 12 2002,21:39)

How much is your insurance going up by???


don't know. I guess it wont go up at all as I am with a specialist consultant and have all mods declared.

[Maz]

172 bhp aint too scabby.

Ermm how much is the kit?

Are there any other similar kits?

And are you having to reduce compression of engine?

Im a boy racer at heart really, just the merc doesnt hold that image which is great :D but as std with 122bhp its slow and it could do with a bit more push

[Mark300SL]

As Koolvin has said - its not just the peak power - its the torque thats impressive

A N/A (Normally Aspirated) engine has a high compression ratio and turbos usually have a lower compression ratio but run boost up to about .8 bar

A C180 with a turbo at .5 bar will feel roughtly like a 2.8 when it pulls away, but the power will rise quicker than the quivalent 2.8 - so at 3500 rpm - it will have more power than the equivalent 2.8

My 1.6 Rover convertible has produced 268Hp at 17PSi (1.2 bar) and will run 1.7 bar next summer after I finish uprating everything - this will produce over 300Hp - AMG territory without the weight penalty :D - Dont forget that this engine only has 130Hp as standard.

I reckon K's car will be close to 200Hp when we are finished - but it will need setting up ona rolling road at 0.4 bar before I let him go any further with the boost settings. Aftermarket turbos can cause engine failures unless the fuelling is exactly controlled

Mark

Who has already spoken to Mosselman about their Twin turbo kit for the 300SL :D

[Mark300SL]

Quote(Maz @ Dec. 12 2002,22:38)
Ermm how much is the kit?

Are there any other similar kits



I would suggest all other 180 owners wait until K's car is finished.

Once we have done the first one - the knowledge to duplicate it will come quite easily :)

Mark

[Maz]

Well you have an eager possible future customer here :)

Just as long as it isnt cheaper to go out and buy a C36 or anything ;)

[GrahamC230K]

Quote (Maz @ Dec. 13 2002,01:56

Well you have an eager possible future customer here <img :)

Just as long as it isnt cheaper to go out and buy a C36 or anything ;)


You joke !!
........but I think Koolvin would be the first to admit he has spent a lot on his car already _-
see this thread (http://www.mbclub.co.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=9;t=582)



If you are serious, you have to think. You may be possibly getting a standard, basic spec C180 Esprit.

If you are not going to be happy with the nice car this is, and are going to do the whole mods thing, to the extent of Koolvin, YES, save the time and money go buy a C36 for sure, maybe even a C43!

I used to have a '98 C200 Sport. It was nice low mileage, just what I wanted apart from a lacking of power, I started to crave for after about 6 months. I got a quote from Birds (http://www.birds.uk.com/mercedes/Spirit/Spirit_frame.htm) to Supercharge to 204BHP.

The money was not unrealistic (honestly cant remember - under £2K for sure) but even the sales guy said I may as well buy a C230K, it would make more sense!

Look what car I have now LOL _:bannana:'> _:D

EDIT: Sorry to take The Turbo Thread a little off topic

Move to a new post if you want, but I thought I needed to comment on Maz's reply.

[Dave Elcome]

Quote (Mark300SL @ Dec. 12 2002,23:49

Once we have done the first one - the knowledge to duplicate it will come quite easily :)

Mark.

In that case can you get your turbo installation done a bit pronto, the thought of my modest estate car, &nbsp;with a fire breathing twin turbo monster under the bonnet conjours up all kinds of pleasures :bannana: :bannana:

[Simon]

Are you going to change your name to Koolfan or Koolfin when the turbo's fitted? :D

[Koolvin]

Originally posted by Black180
Are you going to change your name to Koolfan or Koolfin when the turbo's fitted?

LOL

[Mark300SL]

K - Any news from turboshop ???


Mark

[Koolvin]

Originally posted by Mark300SL
K - Any news from turboshop ???


Mark

Yes, Yesterday Chris contacted me with a price: 276 pounds inc vat and delivery, I gave them the go ahead to carry out the repairs.

I yet have to contact my mate in USA to arrange payment, I think I'll pay for it and he can then re-imburse me for it.

It is being put back together as we speak... I said dont worry take your time just send it on Monday for Tuesday delivery.

[Mark300SL]

Originally posted by Koolvin
Yes, Yesterday Chris contacted me with a price: 276 pounds inc vat and delivery, I gave them the go ahead to carry out the repairs.



LOL @ repairs - you havnt seen the work these boys do! - I reckon it will come back almost as new !!!

Heres my "repaired" turbo

http://www.216turbo.com/turbo%20machined.jpg

I think the words "fully reconditioned" are probably more accurate :)


Mark

[V12]

We sold a full turbo kit from a (1999) C220CDI to a guy who moddified it to fit his 190E 2.3-16v, it absolutely flies, very surprising the difference.

There is also a guy who used to work for us that will have a 700BHP 190E soon... Started off with a standard C36 engine, now has supercharger and turbo, quad exit full high grade SS exhaust, and the front brake discs are bigger than standard 190 Alloys...He's too clever for me, maybe why he didn't like workin under me, and set up his own shop (specialising in nitrous/turbo's/superchargers :devil:

Look forward to hearing all the results K!

[Mark300SL]

Vinay

Ask Mosselman nicely if they have a PDF of the assembly manual

This will help when trying to figure out where all the pipework, intercooler etc goes !

BTW - I have a spare Apexi AVCR boost controller with a knackered solenoid - so we will have the flashest, clearest, most expensive boost gauge ever when setting it all up !

As seen here

http://www.mymr2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AVCR.htm (link)

Mark

[GrahamC230K]

Haha I think Koolvin will NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEd one of those!


PS. Mark - I think you fell for the same trip as me:

Link (http://www.mymr2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AVCR.htm)


The htttp:// link dialogues come up in reverse order to how they used to - description first, then the address.

[Koolvin]

ooooh purdy!!!

I have an instruction manual for it! Yay! once I get the turbo back from Vince & Co. I would like to arrange a meeting with you (to show you all the schtuff and discuss more schtuff) but I don't think it's going to be anytime soon as next weekend is last for Chrimbo so everyone will be busy :)

Let me know when you are free!

[Mark300SL]

Yeah no worries

I'm sure we will have a bit of time between Xmas and new year !


Mark

[Koolvin]

Excellent!

I was getting the *cough*micra*cough* ready to use during the winter months, and possibly while my car is out of action.... the bloomin wipers are so sqeeaky!

It's a bloomin brand new car why do they sqeak!!!! is it because its a *cough*nissan*cough*? :crazy:

[Koolvin]

Bosch F 5 DC sparkplugs mean anything to you? thats what it says to use in the manual!

[Dave Elcome]

Koolvin.

I could be your man here, i used to work for Nissan for 10 yrs, PM me i'll see if i can point you in the right direction.:bannana:

[Koolvin]

I cleaned up all the piping today and studied the manual. Looks like all the bits are there apart from a M12 - M14 reducer nipple kind of like this I am assuming:

http://panamengineers.com/6_4.gif

There were some bits I was unsure on and some things in the instructions were unclear.... The only real major mods that I could see is cutting of the pipe just after the CAT (my poor brand new CAT) and welding the Mosselmann downpipe to it.

[Mark300SL]

Koolvin

Adapter - dont worry :)

Frontpipe
We can take it to my friendly exhaust guys - they will mod the mosselman frontpipe to fit the cat - then replacement cats become and off the shelf item - and the kit can be swapped to another 180 easily enough if you change car for whatever reason.

The frontpipe for my turbo was made by them from scratch - no-one had done one before so there was no pattern to work from.
They made a complete new 2.5" replacement frontpipe with flexy joint in stainless steel for my mate's 220turbo Rover - £100! - Bargain :)


Mark

[Koolvin]

Only problem with the cats on the C180 are that they have the downpipe already on them!! let me get you a pic....


http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/cat/comp.jpg

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/cat/ski.jpg

I made payment for the turbo overhaul today, it will be with me tomorrow! YAY!!!!

[Mark300SL]

Ok

I understand! - So I'll just have to get the welder out then :D

Mark

[Koolvin]

dayum!! you got a welder! :eek: :cool: :eek:

[Koolvin]

Got the turbo back! as good as new just like you said!

[Koolvin]

:)

[Mark300SL]

Nice :D

Top work by Turboshop again!

How about posting a "before" piccy to show just what they have achieved ?

Mark

[Koolvin]

Originally posted by Mark300SL
Nice :D

Top work by Turboshop again!

How about posting a "before" piccy to show just what they have achieved ?

Mark

do you have the before pics? I lost mine I think.

[Koolvin]

Today I got from the stealership

New sump gasket
New sump bolts
New manifold gasket
New exhuast manifold nuts
A replacement ignition timing resistor

[Mark300SL]

As I sent you a piccy of YOUR turbo

You could even post it ;)

Mark

[Koolvin]

here is a before pic of the turbo (cheers Mark)

updates for today, picked up the rest of the parts from MB that were not in stock on WED. also Cleaned up the manifold, there was alot of the old gasket that had baked/melted on so I spent ages cleaning that off.

In the morning I am going to see if these guys are open: http://www.pirtek.co.uk/

I need to get a few specialist bolts of them. I was missing some in the kit and also some were cross threaded.

[Mark300SL]

If not, there is Abbey Hose in barking where I got mine done :D

Mark

[Koolvin]

update:

I got up at 11 this morning don't know why because I never went on the boozer last night. Gave a call to Pirtek (www.pirtek.co.uk) who confirmed they are open to the public and not only the trade but they close at 12:30... anyhow got dressed in like 0.4 seconds and fed there addy into the GPS.

Pirtek (www.pirtek.co.uk) was easy to find - Park Royale in Ealing/Acton. They never had any of the 4 different parts I was after!!! and they claim to be the biggest place of its kind in europe! anyhow they reccomended me another place called Think Automotive they are based in Isleworth not far from me at all. The guy at Pirtek (www.pirtek.co.uk) said they close at 12:30 , the time now was 11:40.

I put in Think Automotives details in the GPS and off I went.. (got stuck for 30 minutes at Gypsy corner) anyhow I made it to Think Auto's just after 12:30 but they were shut - they infact close at 12pm on Sat!!! anyhow got there URL from the shop sign and went back home for a cuppa and a breakfast.

I logged on at home to their website, www.thinkauto.co.uk they seem *just* the place I am looking for! they do loads of bits and bobs all specialised, and if they don't have it, they will make it!

We have CNC lathes with programmes written for every kind and size of thread to enable us to produce even small quantities of adapters in any material quickly and cheaply

On Monday I'll see if I can get to them before work for my bits and bobs! if I can't seem to get nish of them then i'll visit Mark's place that he reccomended!

[Mark300SL]

Vin

Think Auto are very good, but I like to speak to people - not websites. Thats why I use Abbey Hose. They are 5 mins from my front door, and I chat to the guys there about what I actually want - and they make it to order.

Sometimes it takes a couple of days - but they always get iot right first time.


Mark

[Koolvin]

ok being bored at home I decided to check the manifold gasket that I had got from MB fitted the manifold provided by Mosselman.

The nodular cast iron exhaust manifolds contain 35% nickel and is very very heavy!

here is a pic of the manifold...

[Koolvin]

also here is a pic of the MB manifold gasket next to the Mosselman manifold.

[Koolvin]

and here it is on the manifold! all holes match up perfectly!

[Mark300SL]

Vin

We will have to get together for a curry and a good natter!,

I am free next week Sat/Sun/Mon - if any of those suit

Mark

[Koolvin]

Excellent, I am free on all those days as well. Saturday sounds good as well just because it's earlier :bannana:

I can come to you no problems, I will bring all the bits and bobs so you can have a play and we will put pen to paper! just PM me the details!

[Leandro]

Vin! Look who is here :)

I hope you enjoy the turbo!

[Koolvin]

I just went to Think, they open at 9am and I was there at 9:05 but they seemed closed...

I just rang them but no awnser! looks like they are having a early break!

Will have try them on the 27th December!!!! - if they are still closed im going to the place Mark reccomended!

http://www.youth2000ny.com/Help/crying%20baby.gif

[Koolvin]

:bannana: :bannana: :bannana:

They picked up their phone and he said he wasnt officially open but he would help if i went down quick...

I have all the parts I need!:rock:

[Mark300SL]

Vinay

Did you get any of the braided hoses replaced ?

For what they cost I would consider having any small oil hoses replaced - oil is the the lifeblood of both engine and turbo!


Mark

[Koolvin]

EEEEK!!!

No I didn't :(

I did get a new hose from them but not the oil feed one! dayum! no matter maybee I can replace that one braided hose after the installation.

this is what I got of them,



Replacment washer for the oil outlet pipe on the turbo
Blanking cap bolts for the water Inlet/Outlet x2
Sealing washers for the above x2
Replacment oil feed nipple M12-M12 for the turbo
Sealing washer asher for the above
M12-M14 nipple for the oil feed from the Engine
Sealing washer for the above
Replacment hose for the oil drain
Some funky frankeinstein oil drain thingy

[Koolvin]

how's this for a oil return?

(top new intended one)
(below old one)


http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/oilreturn.jpg

[Mark300SL]

Thats what I had in mind :D

I would have had the inlet pipe threaded so it could be capped easily at a later date if necessary. - but it will be easy enough to do if required.


Mark

[Koolvin]

I remember our convo, you said you had taken your sump of and bolted it from the back so no chance of a leak, I asked the guy at think for something like that and he said no problem! I got a good discount for the parts too!

All set now, just need to buy some oil and some spark plugs and thats probably everything covered!

I cant wait!!! :cool:

[Mark300SL]

Well you have until Sat to get the bits,

Just in case we start looking Sat and working Sunday !! :D


Mark

NOT joking !!!

[Koolvin]

/me jumps up and down!!!!

are there any other bits that you can think of that would be needed while i'm on my shopping spree?

[Mark300SL]

Possibly

Coppaslip - just a small tube -though I may have some
Blue Hylomar jointing compound
Exhaust jointing compound
A set of Jubilee clips for the pipework
20 cigarettes (Superkings Black) to help with the stress - I smoke a lot :D

15 10mm (head size) nuts bolts and washers - preferably nylock nuts

Make sure you have the bolts to bolt the turbo to the manifold - these are normally specialist bolts - as a minimum they should be locking nuts but obviously not nylock in this case !!

That should just about do it !!

Mark

[Koolvin]

Copaslip is copper paste?

In the pic below the bolts in the middle are the ones that turboshop supplied, they are the same bolts that are on the manifold already.

the nuts on the left are what was used to secure the turbo to the bolts on the manifold bolts.

the bolts with nuts on the far right are for securing the downpipe to the turbo.

now I may be wrong but the nuts on the left dont appear to be 'locking' I mean they have a grip but will that suffice? can I just buy some spring type washers for it?

just out of curiousoty whats the 10mm bolts and locking nuts for?

[Koolvin]

oh! nearly forgot the sump drain does unscrew to leave a threaded side that can be capped of! Wooo hooo!

[Leandro]

Vin you are making the kit use better pieces than it came with! All I did was replace the dump valve. These pieces look nice! I hope the little extra money I sent you for the overhaul was enough to replace any of these pieces.

[Koolvin]

thanks for this pic boo-kip.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~earls/earls19.jpg

@Leandro - the money you sent just covered the overhaul exactly these bits and pieces are not really bank busting! I still need to see if the funds have arrived!

[Mark300SL]

Originally posted by Koolvin
now I may be wrong but the nuts on the left dont appear to be 'locking' I mean they have a grip but will that suffice? can I just buy some spring type washers for it?

just out of curiousoty whats the 10mm bolts and locking nuts for?

The nuts are fine - they have self locking washers built in!!

10mm bolts are for mounting plates to stabilise anything where we think it might move!

Mark

[Koolvin]

M,

do you have a 1/4 NPT thread thingy?

[Mark300SL]

1/4 NPT thread thingy ????

It doesnt matter - Coz my place should be open on Sat :)

Mark

[Koolvin]

1/4 NPT TAP!

[Mark300SL]

Nope - what for ?

I presume we are going to attempt to tap an oil gallery then :eek:

We have much better methods if required :)

Mark

Get the Tap on friday if possible!!

[Koolvin]

The taps for Plan B :)

I was thinking if removing the oil pan proves to be too much of a mission then we could just use the original (tacky) oil return pipe.

I will be a busy boy on THU and FRI running around like a loon buying stuff - i'm probably going to be drunk as a lord on those days!

I'm thinking of switching from Mobil 1 to Castrol RS (synthetic also)

what do you think?

my MB takes 6 Litres of oil - LOL also on my list apart from Oil is


Flushing oil
Replacment sump washer
Oil filter
Oil filter removal tool
Tie wraps!
Hand cleaner


oh you got a tool for this type of head... (gimme a mo i'll post piccy)

[Mark300SL]

I would not want to use a drill and tap in a sump full of oil - as it will never be possible to remove all the swarf from the inside of the sump - without removing it !!!

A lot would drain away - but small bits can still be left to do damage

IMHO sump off is the best way forward - despite all the aggravation it will cause, it will be a "proper" job and I thought you never did things half hearted ;)


Mark

[Koolvin]

true say the oil return I like to do things proper!

ok dont worry about the bolt, a socket fits the head I just checked!

I got this ignition timing resistor - its supposed to retard the ignition, it cost 7 pounds - what did they give me? a bloody washer the size of a penny!!!! where the hell does this go! hehe I am going to ask the stealership about it and maybee give Mosselman a call too. here is the pic:

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/resistor.jpg

[Mark300SL]

Heres an ign resistor for w201 and w124's - looks a bit different!!!

http://www.2phast.com/190e/amg%20wheel%20017.jpg

Better check with the stealer !

[Koolvin]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo the stealers ripped me off!!!!

[Mark300SL]

£7 for a washer !!!

They saw you coming ;)


Mark

[Koolvin]

C280 TT :)

[GrahamC230K]

Projected pic of Vins car:


http://www.amkread.co.jp/Pages/Event02/AllJapan/Photo/113-B.jpg


:D :bannana:

[Koolvin]

Ok! I have all the bits I need! (apart from spark plugs)

Stealers are replacing the 7 quid washer!

Mark, I am just gonna buy Bosch standard plugs for now, see you at 9:30 in the morn :D


Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh :devil:

[Mark300SL]

Originally posted by Koolvin



Mark, I am just gonna buy Bosch standard plugs for now, see you at 9:30 in the morn :D


Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh :devil:

Make sure the plugs are a heat range colder - or wait till you get here !!

Come monday it will be

:devil: Whooooooosh Tsssssssssssssssch :D :D

[fuzzer]

When do you fit the wings on K ?

[Guy]

Mark, Koolvin,

How long is the whole installation process likely to take?

Hope it all goes smoothly for you both!

Good luck! :D

And K, take care testing it out - remember they're on your case - even when you're in the Micra or on yer bike...
:rolleyes: :bannana: :rolleyes: :bannana:

[Koolvin]

Mark reckons in about a day or 2, but there can always be complications. I have alot of faith in Mark as he knows what he is talking about when I have discussions with him...

I am no pansy and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty so instead of getting in the way of Mark I hope to be getting my hands dirty!

I will be bringing a set of spare clothes (everything apart from my boxers) so I can transform into something ugly.

I think tomorrow we are just going to look and talk things over but who knows we may even make a start -

I got a crate of beer in the boot also because like with Mark and his fags I need my beer. Mark tells me one of his mates is lending us his garage should keep us away from the weather!

it's going to be a cool day whatever we end up doing! I am getting real excited now and I wonder if I am going to get any sleep tonight!

1 tank of Optimax coming right up......

[Mark300SL]

Vin
Go to bed !!!

you WILL be getting dirty - this is only to be expected as you are saving an absolute fortune in fitting costs :D

You cannot drink too much beer - in case we are too quick and you need to road test this missile and drive it home :D (probably not :) )

Guy
Tomorrow was supposed to be a chat - but it will almost certainly evolve into a "start"
Therefore this should be done by Sun night - but we do have Mon, Tues, & Wed for "unforseen circumstances"

Having seen the kit I am coinvinced it could be fitted in a day with the right tools and an early start.


Mark

Also looking forward to tomorrow

[V12]

Gud luck to both of you, and dont remember to have fun doing it (as if you could forget!!)

:bannana: :p

[fuzzer]

Does anyone else have the feeling a sound sample of his dump valve is coming?



Have a nice weekend dudes ... :D

[GrahamC230K]

This is him isn't it?

linky linky (http://www.gsbweb.btinternet.co.uk/hksSSBOV.mp3)

[Mark300SL]

Vin has left the building !!

After a long day stripping the original car back we have temporarily installed the turbo and charge pipework - and it fits with only one hiccup

We have a long day ahead tomorrow, but with some hard work we could be finished tomorrow night!

As its Vins car I will let him post all the details and the pics from todays efforts

I have just edited everones posts from the first page that suffered due to the change of forum - I hope no-one take offence but a lot of people are now starting to read this thread, and I thought it might make things easier for everyone to be able to read it all as originally posted :D

Mark

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by Mark300SL
Vin has left the building !!

Mark

I thought you were working straight through :p

[Koolvin]

Right then...

I got up this morning expecting to leave at 8:30am, I couldn't find my keys so that wasted an hour! left my house at 9:30ish....

I decided to fuel up which was down the A4 and followed the sat nav directions, straight through Central London... I took one wrong turning and then Vengaboys drove me mad so I turned of the radio - anyway I got to Essex at 10:20ish.. I knew I was in Essex because of all the cars overtaking and undertaking me! LOL

Anyway once at Marks car lot I mean house we decided to go for a coffee and discuss things like planned... showed Mark under the hood and gave him the Manual for the turbo, 'Flick flick where are the pictures?' he asked! :bannana:

Drove down to Marks m8's house Kenny very nice chap whom let us use his facilities! Garage, and stuff.. and we started to strip the car!!!

Mark was straight at it chug chug airbox, bumper , catylist, manifold, heatshielding all out and we done a test fit of the new turbo complete with manifold and charge pipes and intercooler!
The only problem we had was the water pipe for the heater matrix was too close to the turbo but we will shift that later.... we finished at 5pm so we done a some good hours of work

Oh yeah saw a 180BHP CRX!!! and I got a ride in a 300SL ;)

I think the first thing for tomorrow will be to remove the oil sump and put the oil drain on, sounds easy but it's quite time consuming as the engine needs to be lifted of its mounts!


Did I miss anything out Mark?

piccies!

[Koolvin]

This is the pipe we need to move!

[Mark300SL]

Originally posted by Koolvin


Did I miss anything out Mark?




Yep

You need to ask V12 if he has a valve cover that doesnt have a cut out in it !
Preferably one with a red plug cover that says Kompressor :D

This will finish the engine bay off nicely :)

Mark

[Mark300SL]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K
I thought you were working straight through :p


We were :(

But Vinay couldnt hack it :D

Mark

[Koolvin]

LOL! I was cold and hungry!

the food substitute aka Beer wasn't working! need to bring the hip flask, now where was that bottle of Hennessey ;)

[V12]

Actually...

I have a cover, from an SLK230K, dunno if it fits (should do)

Finishing touches are always the thing...:bannana:

[Mark300SL]

Vinay is on his way home - by tube :(

We worked hard a long tonight - before deciding to have a quick curry and call it a night

Jobs for tomorrow include

1 Finish the oil return the sump
2. Cutting up the new cat to weld to the downpipe - bang goes that warranty !
3. fit fuel pressure regulator
4. refit bumper

Thats it! - I reckon 4 or 5 hours should see it finished !

V12 - he needs it :) - engine bay is looking very pretty now, but like you say - it will be the finishing touch.

Mark

[Koolvin]

We done very well today, we took everything out that was fitted yesterday and re-fitted it properly today.

We had a few hurdles, nothing that Mark couldn't overcome - He is a very good Engineer, I learned new tricks everyday.

I will post more but not tonight I need to get some rest as I have had a few restless nights... tonight will be the last one!

here is a pic to keep you guys happy!

[Koolvin]

Oh and MB make the most nicest heatshields to hide the most ugliest manifolds known to man!

left = OEM

Right = Mosselman

[V12]

lookin' gud.

I for one am really lookin forward to the results of this, and a pic diary is brilliant.

Cheers guys!:bannana:

[Simon]

What came out of that hole in the old manifold, and where does it fit into the new one?

Just curious.

[Mark300SL]

The lambda sensor was in the top of the manifold - it is fitted into the new frontpipe from the turbo in the top piccy :)

It is just visible next to the head towards the rear of the engine, fitted into the brown frontpipe.


Mark

[Mark300SL]

I predicted I might get involved in this project a couple of weeks after I joined the forum :)


http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=261&start=7

Mark

[Koolvin]

late night Mark?

Dont ask what I'm doing awake!!! need tofeed some of my gases into the charge pipe ;)

[Mark300SL]

Did Vin get stopped by plod on the way home ??????

I'm sure he wont have heeded my warnings about excess speed, and not scaring children with the dump valve! :D

Needless to say he has a VERY big grin permanently etched on his face at the moment !!

We had far too much fun for that car to even be put into the C180 catagory ever again!

C230K owners - look out !

Mark

[V12]

Sounds good!!!:D :bannana:

[Maz]

All done now is it?

Get it Dynoed :D

And tell us the results mate.

Also i'd love to know how much it set you back in total.

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by Mark300SL


C230K owners - look out !

Mark


I Fear it more than you think.

Actually made a call the Birds yesterday to find out about the Carlsson Supercharger Pulley Boost Upgrade. More money than I'd want to spend though. Worst case about £2700, depending on exact car, for 225BHP.

I called Oakley the UK dealers for Kleemann, but "the guy who deales with that stuff" is on Holiday.

I am scared. :confused:

[Richard W]

Well done guys :bannana: :bannana: - excellent project and extremely interesting to have updates with piccys!:D

Makes my plug in chip seem a bit of a wuss conversion! (anyone got any diesel tuning mods.......? :rolleyes: )

Please keep us updated on how it goes/feels/power increase etc.

R

[Guy]

Congratulations!!

And a happy, safe and prosperous 2003 to all at MBclub :D :D

:bannana: :bannana: :bannana: :bannana: :bannana:

[Shude]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K
I called Oakley the UK dealers for Kleemann, but "the guy who deales with that stuff" is on Holiday.

The Kleemann pulley kit is only about £300, if you have the newer 230k engine with the revised MAS location. That gives you about half of the performance increase that the turbo will give to the c180, for 1/10 of the price. Bargain really. I am seriously considering the kleemann pulley kit, I will ask Steve to install it when I am next in NL :) .

[Koolvin]

First of all I have to Thank Mark - he is one excellent mechanical engineer, knows engines inside out and can explain them in such a way that his knowledge will be passed to you with ease. Kenny for letting us use his garage and facilities not to mention the endless coffee. Alison for driving us about and Danny for being a sport - you guys rock!

We done a job that IMHO could never of have been done better by anyone, we never cut any corners and as you guys know we upgraded a few bits. Mosselman would have to re-write his manual! talking about Manual, Mark only read the Manual after the conversion was done! LOL :bannana:

I have learnt alot about the turbo how it works etc, and I am glad I had my bit of input because at least if something ws to happen I wouldnt throw my hands up in the air and throw a wobbly.

The car - what can I say? it's boosting on the Analogue meter at 0.5. It feels like a new car - Drivability is much much improved - it pulls away from a standing still easily and effortlesly.

Safety is improved too because normally when wanting to go into a fast lane (or slow lane) I would wait till the car in the occupied lane has its front bumper on my rear and I would have to do a kick down (or drop a gear) and the engine would scream and then I could make that lane change. Now.... If I was to do that either I would overtake that oncoming car, or - ram it of the road as we nearly found out!

Noises? well it makes all kinds of noises - something very special indeed. The C180 is now a more drivable car maybee it will increase my MPG because I dont need to rev the B*llocks of it every time I take it out.

Improvments? well not really I like it as it is I dont feel the need for more speed its good as it is, dont forget the car has no ASR and no ESP good thing or bad? you decide. The forst month of 2003 is going to be very interesting indeed.

I will be writing a few HTML pages as an article to put on MBC UK and will elaborate more and hopefully fully comprhensable paragraphs with each of the pics stage and day by day.

Thanks Mark, I'll see you today after midday to help clean some of the mess we made at Ken's!

Oh need to make my engine bay nice and clean as the rest of the car now :sigh:

[Koolvin]

:)

[Simon]

That's going to be the first thing I want to see at the next GTG. Well done guys.

Not being funny or anything, but there's no way my C180 is a sluggish as Koolvins obviously was before the transformation. Just had to say that on behalf of C180 owners (Manual) everywhere.

Manual gearbox?:rock: :rock: :rock:

I'm going to miss my daily read of "The Turbo Thread".

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by Black180


Manual gearbox?:rock: :rock: :rock:

I'm going to miss my daily read of "The Turbo Thread".


Why??

You and Maz are next.

[Shude]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K
You and Maz are next.

Yep, all people with naturally aspirated engines please form an orderly queue!

As someone's sig says on bnzsport.com, "if it's not blown, it sucks".

[Simon]

I can feel another trip to Santa Pod coming on:D

Surely having an automatic gearbox is like transferring you power through a soggy sponge.

[Mark300SL]

Originally posted by Black180

Not being funny or anything, but there's no way my C180 is a sluggish as Koolvins obviously was before the transformation. Just had to say that on behalf of C180 owners (Manual) everywhere.

Manual gearbox?:rock: :rock: :rock:



I will add that the car just doesnt suit a manual box now - the power delivery is very smooth, the box changes dont even set off the dump valve - much to Vins disgust!

Would you want a manual C280 ? - probably not.

However - a manual version of this would go very well indeed - assuming the box could take the increased power!

Originally posted by GrahamC230K

Why??

You and Maz are next.

If anyone is genuinely interested - ..... This is actually not as mad as it seems :)

Using original Mosselman kits - we are looking at change from £4000 fitted for a C180

The manifolds are the hardest part to get hold of - everything else I could get manufacured locally to suit - at a lot less than the cost of a Mosselman kit.

I reckon that a turbo, the associated charge pipes, and exhaust frontpipes could be made for about £1000 - intercooler will be about £250 - that leaves a lot of change to buy a manifold a fuel pressure regulator and some silicon hoses - IF we can get a manifold - then we can do this fitted for well under £3000

I dont think for one minute that Mosselman will want to sell me a pair of 300 manifolds for my SL - So after asking them - I'm going to do some digging and see what I can come up with!


At this point I will add - the Mosselman kit is very impressive - it looks factory and went on very easily - not that a replica couldnt be made just as nicely!
If there is enough interest - I for one would be interested in setting up a "group buy" on Mosselman kits in an attempt to drive the price down!


Mark

[Shude]

Originally posted by Black180
Surely having an automatic gearbox is like transferring you power through a soggy sponge.

Try comparing your manual c180 to Vinay's auto c180 turbo and see which one feels the soggiest ;)

[Maz]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K
Why??

You and Maz are next.

Lol its not even my car!! yet ;)

[Mark300SL]

Well

We have just got back from clearing up the garage, and a final going over of the car.

All is well in turbo land, and we have left the boost at its current low level for the near future at least. It is currently running at between 4.5 & 5 Psi of boost, and the kit is designed to run at 6Psi, spiking to 6.5 momentarily.

The car feels strong now and Vinay doesnt feel he needs any more power at the moment. I have no doubt it will be turned up in the future though :)


BTW - I DID read the manual - just when I needed to !


Mark

[Dave B]

K: that looks a very neat installation. Well done guys. I bet it pulls like a train when it's on boost. The main thing to watch for now is the increase in temperature under the bonnet....especially in Summer :)

A few questions:

1. It's hard to tell from the front-on pic but is that a thumping great heatshield betwix turbo and coolant tank ?

2. Are you running a synthetic oil ? (maybe a daft question as we know you look after your car)

3. Have you done a dyno run yet to establish new power/torque levels ?

Anyhow, what a great xmas\new year present. Enjoy, and Happy New Year.

[Koolvin]

Thanks D,

1. Yes that is a heat stainless steel shield provided by Mosselman to keep the watertank insulated. If you see around the bulkhead you will notice that sound deadaning has been removed also as the front pipe runs that way and there can be enormous amounts of heat build up.

2. I have always run on Mobil 1 and the car. I have been told that it is a bit thina nd should run Castrol RS which Mark regards as excellent too. The reason for Castrol RS is because it's supposed to be thicker - infact after being briefed on Oil and their ratings the Castrol is 0W 40 the same as Mobil 1 - I will change to )W 60 after 500 miles.

3. No dyno run as the boost is set LOWER than Mosselman reccomend, Mark reckons another 25% increase after the PSI is increased! WOAH!!!! I will get a Dyno - but TBH im not bothered as figures and graphs mean nothing to me, its the way it drives and feels now is better than any graph!


Things to do... I need to fit a guage in to see how the fuel mixture is - it needs to be rich under boost. Spark plugs need changing to C230K ones (I have them already) Hopefully by the March GTG boost will be turned up and I should have some sort of readings in the form of a graph , I may need to fit an adjustable fuel pressure reggulator as the one I have atm is a fixed type.

[Malc]

Well done Vinay & Mark. It looks excellent. And the thread has been a crackin' good read:D

:bannana: :bannana: :bannana:

[Koolvin]

going to book the car in for a dyno run @ Power Enginnering (http://www.powerengineering.co.uk) in Uxbridge this weekend!

[V12]

:devil: need results... ;) :devil:

[Koolvin]

got the car pluged into the OBD scanner at George fraser, no faults shown recorded by the ECU !

[Mark300SL]

Well what did you expect :confused:

I wasnt expecting any faults !!!

Mark

:D :D :D :D

[Koolvin]

Power Engineering on Saturday @ 2pm Mark is bringing his DV cam!

[Rascel]

Get a dyno to find the A/F mixture. Mine needs some serious tuning as its running as low as 10.3:1 :eek: Need to be running around 12.5:1. I would up the boost as you are probably running too rich from the non-adjustable FPR

[Koolvin]

ok, here are some pics from the Turbo installation


chop the cat!!! hehe from 2 down pipes its got one big mutha now

[Koolvin]

no more paying GF to change cats ;)


DIY!!!

[GrahamC230K]

Axel stands are for wimps, right?

[Koolvin]

I said I wouldn't but I have! :P

/me runs for my life

oh this is Mark fitting the oil feed taken from the oil channel under the manifold (already taken off)

[Koolvin]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K
Axel stands are for wimps, right?

no, there was another support on the car (not shown)

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by Koolvin
no, there was another support on the car (not shown)


I am glad ;)

[Mark300SL]

Rascel

Power engineering will use a wideband O2 sensor and a silicon damped boost gauge to set it up correctly

Graham

The Jack shown in the first pic is actually the second line of support - just in case :)
I never work under just a jack - as Koolvin found out
We had 2 jacks and an axle stand for this particular install.


Mark

[Koolvin]

on my 1996 W202 I needed to retard the ignition by about 3 degrees after having fitted a Turbocharger.

After lots of reading and research and (annoying and boring lots of people) help from others...

(Ashman, 2phast, MBenznl, Mark300SL, willy @ Mosselman)

I managed to locate the infamous part!

location: left wing (fender to you usa peeps) under the washer bottle, prise of lid of ECU and ye shall find!!!


Cover off:


http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/ecu.jpg

my old plug (024 545 06 28)

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/plug.jpg

pull it out!

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/noplug.jpg

old and new part

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/oldnnew.jpg

side by side:

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/sidebyside.jpg

underneath

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/DSC01660.jpg

new one in!

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/newin.jpg



REFERENCE THREAD (http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=32224&highlight=ignition+timing+resistor)

[Mark300SL]

Now we just need more fuelling !

After yesterdays dyno run the car is running lean under high revs/ high boost conditions! We spoke with power engineering and after lengthy discussions came to the conclusion that a mappable 5th injector is probably the best way forward

This is basically an extra fuel injector added to the inlet pipe to supply more fuel under boost. It is controlled by a "control box" that dictates exactly how much more fuel will be injected at a certain level of boost.

A cosworth injector will be used along with a MAP sensor to measure boost. The system is then fine tuned on the R/R to achieve correct fuelling at any point!

This should not only give Koolvin a slight hike in power - but will allow him to use the car as originally intended.

I predict about 130hp at the wheels, and an engine that wont self destruct under lean running preignition conditions.

This does however show the importance of using a rolling road to set up the car when major engine work has been undertaken.


Mark

[Mark300SL]

Koolvin

Any news from PE ?


Mark

[Koolvin]

yes Mate! check the calander!

[Koolvin]

I feel bad posting this because of Shude. :(

but I had the 5th (cosworth) injector put in controlled by a MF2 Management unit, also I now have a MAS from a Suberu Imprezza.

almost straight away the car gained an extra 12 BHP just with the much needed fuel and this was at a Lower RPM..

The boost was turned up by .5 but it made no difference to power but made extra Torque gains, also the car is not 'detting' one bit.

after accounting for Tranny losses I am running at 180BHP

Mission Accomplished.

[Koolvin]

top right = MF2 Fuel managment system
Bottom left = Subaru MAP sensor

http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/mf2.jpg

Fith Injector:


http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/map.jpg

[Mark300SL]

Nice neat job :)

Almost worthy of our previous "OEM Standard" turbo installation !

Does it feel better on the road ? - Have you actually noticed the 12Hp - or do you just feel better knowing that its not lean any more ?


Mark

[Koolvin]

was a good install no doubt, a few mistakes were made.

for example: the T piece for the 5th injector was put where the Vortech had been taken out and as you know that was the return, but that was minor. You know about the contacts for the 5th injector.

The fitting kit for the 5th injector was bolt on and not welded he would have dont it if it was Ally and not steel dunno why maybee you can tell me.

By increasing the boost by about 0.5 PSI only torque improved. I dunno if the car feels quicker to be honest but at least I can drive it hard now without melting pistons and running as lean as a rats @rse.

Next up Oil issues to be resolved and also brackets to hold things in more secure. but yeah it does feel like king on the motorway ;)

[Steve_Perry]

Please 'scuse my ignorance guys but...

Where exactly does the 5th injector inject fuel into, if the engine only has 4 cylinders? Does the turbo ram so much more air into the engine that the fuel mix was then too lean?

Also does the MB ECU need to know that there is another fuel managment system and sensor? I just wonder how the two don't fight one another.

Looks impressive K.

S.

[Koolvin]

Originally posted by Steve_Perry
Please 'scuse my ignorance guys but...

Where exactly does the 5th injector inject fuel into, if the engine only has 4 cylinders? Does the turbo ram so much more air into the engine that the fuel mix was then too lean?

Also does the MB ECU need to know that there is another fuel managment system and sensor? I just wonder how the two don't fight one another.

Looks impressive K.

S.

The 5th injector injects fuel into the charge pipe that goes into the inlet manifold.

The 5th injector has a control unit called the MF2 which is also connected to a MAP sensor, so according to how much boost the MAP sensor sees the MF2 tells the 5th injector to pulse for x amount. this was setup on a rolling road.

The MB ECU does not see the seperate Fuel management system.

Mark will probably explain things more clearly.

[Mark300SL]

Steve

The original MB ecu actually adapted very well to the addition of boost - and certainly adapted to allow the system to provide more fuel for the extra air that was being forced in. In this particular case though - the extra fuelling required was outside the available "adjustment" in the ECU

Having checked the fuelling on the rolling road it was definately lean at the top end under boost.
The extra injector is added to the charge pipework so the spray is atomised before the air actually enters the inlet plenum - this actually gives us a fuel enriched air charge before the OE injectors inject their fuel.

As Vin has said, the MF2 takes a reading from a seperate MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure), this tells the MF2 when the manifold pressure shows boost - at this point it starts to inject extra fuel. If no boost is present the MF2 does nothing and fuelling is just std OE MB.

So - In summary the MF2 squirts extra fuel only when the engine sees boost :)

HTH

Mark

[Steve_Perry]

Thanks K,

Thanks Mark.

I feel suitably illuminated :)

S.

[S32 AMG]

hey guys, I have a W140 S320 (M104 motor) and I want to get the mosselman twin turbo upgrade, its roughly $6800 US dollars and it will raise power from 229HP to 320HP. Do you think its worth it?

Is the mosselman kit well engineered? what did you do about software tuning? is that included with the kit?

also i noticed your kit has the intercooler but i dont think the 6cyl has intercooler.

anyways does anyone know anything about the turbo on the 6cyl motors and do you all think its worth it?

It i run turbo with straight pipes and high flow exhaust i should be able to get alot more power than just 320HP huh?

Thanks for any help possible.

[Mark300SL]

Mosselman kit is very well engineered

Forget the outright power increase - its the extra torque you really feel!

The power is just bragging rights at the pub - the overtaking ability and security comes from the extra low down torque provided by the turbos!

If you can justify the expense to yourself - then the kit is a good option - but remember it needs to be fitted and tuned to suit!

I would not recommend trying to exceed the 320hp limit - in facr it will probably only make closer to 300 - but you will still be impressed :)

Mark

[choony]

Hey guys, Ive read about all the new turbo kits for the electronic fuel injected motors, but what I want to know is does one exist for the mechanical fuel injected engines, more specificall 1990 260E ?? If anyone has done this or knows any sites which have can you please let me know. I imagine it would be either really easy or the exact opposite really hard.