1 Malfunction => Hdlmp Cornering

[Norseman]

Hello experts and other members http://www.mercedesforum.com/image/s1.gif

I have a 2004 E 320 T CDI Avantgarde. A few weeks ago I recieved this error message in the display. It comes and goes, but now it seems more constant.

I took the car to a MB Garage, and the did a diagnostic search. The result was a big "F", and they told me that I have to replace the whole headlight.

Do any of you have some experience whit this. Do i really have to replace the whole headlight, or is it possible to repair this in a less expensive way? A new headlight and labor will cost me apx 1800 Euro.

Apreciate for all kind of help!

(hope you understand what i`m writing, my english isn`t very good)



Norseman

E 320 T CDI Avantgarde, 2004

[R2D2]

There are two types of cornering light one which activates the foglight in the direction you are turning and one which is motorised and moves the beam around the crner. If you had the first type then it isn't likely to be a new head light but if you have the second type then it could be a new headlight unless a local independent is able to get to what the exact problem is. MB will always just "bin it" and put a new unit in even if the repair is quite simple. HTH.

[Norseman]

I think I have the second type, the cornering headbeam. It seems that the left headbeam don`t raise and lower the light in the same way as the right headbeam when I start the car.

Think I will visit a indipendent garage (maybe Bosch?) and let them take a look. Thank you for the advice, seems that MB-Garages is the same all over the Globe - "replace it, even if it costs a fortune".

[Dieselman]

The headlamp is activated by a stepper motor operating from a given home position sensed by a sensor. If the control doesn't know th ehome position or cannot move the motor it will fail.
It might be worth checking for the mechanism being jammed or sensor being faulty as stepper motors don't usually burn out.

[Diesel Benz]

The internal parts of a head light assembly are not typically available as individual spare parts but perhaps this cornering electric motor would be the same type as the one taking care of levelling. There was recently a thread where someone showed how the levelling motor was changed. A few of these have failed, it might then happen to the cornering motor too. The motor part number was mentioned at that thread too.

[glojo]

There are two types of cornering light one which activates the foglight in the direction you are turning and one which is motorised and moves the beam around the crner. If you had the first type then it isn't likely to be a new head light but if you have the second type then it could be a new headlight unless a local independent is able to get to what the exact problem is. MB will always just "bin it" and put a new unit in even if the repair is quite simple. HTH.It looks like we are talking about a 2004 E-class so the active headlights are just that. The foglights do not work in synch.

regards
John

[Norseman]

Have delivered my car to a indipendent garage this morning, hopefully they will be able to fix the cornering light whitout replace the whole headlamp (i need my 2000 Euro for summer vacation :cool: ).

But, if it`s just the cornering function that its broken, my question is; do i really need that? Ok, it gives better light, but is it worth it?

I suppose that the auto up and down still working, since my headlight isn`t turning down to the ground yet. And this is the most important thing, or what?

Then again, I find it annoying to recieve this error message every time I start and stop my car, is it possible to disconnect anything so that the error message disappear?

[glojo]

We have a similar vehicle with this option and to be perfectly honest it is about the only option I would not re-order. Bi-xeon headlights are amazing and the light gets to parts other lights cannot reach.

It would be a shame to disconnect the active part, but it will definitely NOT effect the illumination area.

I have NO idea if it is possible to disconnect these lights and still have them work!

regards
John

[Norseman]

Thanks Glojo - but just to be clear (since my english isn`t very good); you would a accept the error and the error message?

And then I have a possible stupid question; Is the conering light the same as active Bi-Xenon?

[glojo]

Thanks Glojo - but just to be clear (since my English isn`t very good); you would a accept the error and the error message?

And then I have a possible stupid question; Is the conering light the same as active Bi-Xenon?On our model E-class..... active headlights are those that turn with the steering so yes to that part of your question. :)

NO......... I personally would NOT like that continual error message and I personally would want all the options working.

Having said that, only you know you have active headlights. If you disconnect it, clear the error message and prevent this message from re-occurring then who would know?

I'm afraid that most dealers tend to replace parts that are not working, it is too time consuming to investigate, or even attempt a repair. The annoying thing is that this might only be a small piece of plastic that is broken and it might be easily fixed?? It might also be totally broken and be beyond any economical repair?

Your English is excellent and I feel embarrassed at how poor mine is.

Well done and please stick around on this very friendly forum.

Yours sincerely
John

[Norseman]

Thanks again John - and of course will I visit (and post) on this forum - this is the best forum I`ve found, and I`ve visit a lot. So keep up the good work, folks - lets make this the best MB-forum on the net! :-)

[Diesel Benz]

Here is an old thread about an issue with the self-levelling motor.
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=540719&postcount=25

I thought the part number was mentioned somewhere but I could not find it. Anyone with any better memory who knew and posted it? I found another post referring to Inchcape listing this part separately (probably for some other purpose?) but the part number is hiding somewhere.

Perhaps the same part is used for the active Xenon lights for horizontal adjustments?

[whitenemesis]

Can this cornering function be switched off? Either via the cluster or STAR?

[Diesel Benz]

Active turning lights cannot be turned off, not at least on a W221 (glojo could comment if it is the same for a W211, I assume so).

I have not looked if there would be a version coding option, it may not exists as I assume the motors need to calibrate the current position at every start-up (motors are run to one end and then a known amount backwards, no memory or position sensor/potentiometer is then needed).

It could be an SCN coded feature too but since the cornering fog lights can be turned off (members on the forum have had this done), that must be separately coded, I would not assume the same for the turning lights.

Physically cars up to 06/06 have the CAN bus to the SAM and a specific bus from the SAM to the lights. I believe this is common with the levelling and the turning function, it is not possible to cut a wire to disable the motor. On later models the CAN-bus is connected directly which doesn't make cutting wires any more feasible.

[whitenemesis]

THe headlamp levelling on my newly installed xenons is a seperate loom. Perhaps if cornering lights on the OP's car was offered as an option, this may be the same?

[Diesel Benz]

THe headlamp levelling on my newly installed xenons is a seperate loom. Perhaps if cornering lights on the OP's car was offered as an option, this may be the same?

After a quick look, the W203 looks pretty different in the sense that the level sensors seem to be wired directly to the xenon head lights (control unit). Perhaps this is because the W203 probably does not need these sensors for other purposes while the W211 would need those for Airmatic.

[1NDYT]

Morning folks,
Have had the same malfunction coming up on my car and thought i'd do some investigating. My passenger side light is not turning left and right when doing its check. I pulled the undershield off this morning and found a part just hanging from its two wires. The plastic part is almost conical shaped with a rim and about 3cm in length. Its attached by two wires. I'll try and upload the pictures.

Could any one tell me where this is supposed to fit?:crazy: Fingers crossed that this is the problem!

Just had another look, could this just be the Air Temp Sensor??

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/INDERJ%7E1.THA/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/INDERJ%7E1.THA/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg

[Diesel Benz]

The ambient temperature sensor does not help with the lights unfortunately. Perhaps something more loose along with the temp sensor?

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=211070&M=113%2E967&GA=722%2E633&CT=F&cat=64U&SID=54&SGR=106&SGN=09

[1NDYT]

Pulled the Bumper off and then both sets of lights hoping i could swap and see if the working headlamp worked on the side not working. Couldn't connect them up because wires weren't long enough!! :mad:.

Ended up putting everything back together and giving up.:(

Do you know if Bosch engineers look at lighting systems?
....and does anyone have any idea how much cornering Bi-Xenons for the E-class cost?

Had a look on Inchcape and it doesn't appear to be listed. Reluctant to take it to Merc. Had a battery replaced by Mobilo breakdown 3 mths back and this problem started to appear after that. First intermittently and now permanent.

The lights up and down health check still works but side to side no longer does. MOT's due in a couple of months and i think the lights off centre which may cause some problems.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[glojo]

Morning folks,
Have had the same malfunction coming up on my car and thought i'd do some investigating. My passenger side light is not turning left and right when doing its check.Sorry to appear a bit thick but do your passenger side lights turn left and rights? :confused: ;)

Regards
John the fikky

[1NDYT]

They do.

[glojo]

They do.
Do what??? I have a 2004 E-class with active headlights, but you are talking about side-lights!!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I am genuinely totally confused and I need to know exactly what you mean.

Regards
John the fikkie

[Diesel Benz]

I understood the question being about the lights at the passenger side, not side-lights on the left (assuming a RHD car). Honestly, I've never paid attention if my head lights run left and right when I start the car (lights coming on), the up/down movement is easier to detect (also my car is different). I'm sure I could find the answer for the W/S211 from a previous post from glojo.

By the way, isn't the correct term for turning head-lights "active curve-light" or something like that while "cornering illumination" should refer to the fog lights at crossroads or so? A bit confusing error message if it says "headlamps cornering" for the malfunction. What was the exact text actually and how does the manual explain it?

[1NDYT]

Its states the fault as being 'Hdlmp Cornering'. This is different to the feeble Fog Light attempt at Corner illuminations.

Most Bi-Xenons have the Vertical movement but some cars also have the Horizontal movement which can be seen when the car is first started as the lights 'set' themselves.

I think Glojos is the same as mine.

......and yes, the question is about the Main Headlamp, having said that there is an indicator above the main lights in the housing but that works anyway so is not an issue. The error is not in the Manual. I think they are called 'CurveLight' in Germany. Was looking at German E-bay last night.

[glojo]

Whewww,
I thought it was me,
The left, right pre-check was only seen on 211's built prior to December 2003. My vehicle has a January 2004 build date and so does not have it we are left with just the bi-xeneon normal pre-checks.

If the display is coming up with a cornering fault then yup it will be the relevant headlight.

John

[Diesel Benz]

I had a look at a few technical documents but all I could find was that MB themselves use pretty randomly the terminology, cornering illumination is sometimes referring to the turning main lights and sometimes the specific cornering lamps (on a W211 specific bulbs are used at corners instead of the fog lights as on a W211, but still a different thing from the turning lights). I've often used EPC for a reference but that too is often using a very German like English, UK sales brochures might be a better reference for terminology.

I was more after the construction of the horizontal adjustment versus the vertical one. I assume the horizontal one has built in position feedback as it does not need "calibration" at start-up but this is not explained by any of the documents I was able to find. Another option is that cornering motors are mechanically sufficiently stable and calibration while driving is enough, one cannot avoid tight enough turns anyway where the lights are run to one extreme (similarly as the vertical adjustment at start-up). The early implementation actually refers to the "no feedback option".

Someone probably knows about the very details of the horizontal adjustment motors?

[1NDYT]

Had a chat with a Bosch engineer today.
He seems to think it is the motor for the lamp after I told him the lights still work and indicators are fine. I'm 100% sure the connections are OK because i pulled everything apart when i took the Headlamp out and made sure i re-connected everything properly.

Also rang Merc to see if they sell the motor separately and they predictably said no. The Headlamp brand new costs £649+vat, OUCH!

May just take it to the Bosch chap anyway to confirm voltages are all ok before i look into purchasing a light which i'm will trying to avoid.

I think there is only one motor on the Headlamp so i'm thinking the lamp itself has extra cogs in it which makes it go through the horizontal checks as well as the normal vertical.

I had a look at my wifes car which also has Bi-Xenon and I'm sure the motor is the same as mine....at least it looked the same.

[Diesel Benz]

I think there is only one motor on the Headlamp so i'm thinking the lamp itself has extra cogs in it which makes it go through the horizontal checks as well as the normal vertical.

I had a look at my wifes car which also has Bi-Xenon and I'm sure the motor is the same as mine....at least it looked the same.

How would two independent motor controlled adjustments work through extra gears with a single motor? One would need a gearbox and brakes for each adjustment, a bit too complicated even for MB.

Older models have a single wire bus/control line while later models use direct CAN connection to control light adjustments.

[1NDYT]

So are there motors within the lamp housing itself as opposed to being attached from the outside?

There is a sealant that binds the lens cover and the rest of the lamp housing. If i took my existing housing apart where would I be able to buy the sealant (black in colour and looks flexible) to stick the whole thing back together?

[Diesel Benz]

I wonder how everybody had their active curve light issues solved, I have not seen owners reporting about the fix.

At a US forum an expert posted a technical bulletin describing an issue with headlamp wiring, causing the curve illumination become non-functional. I don't want to post the bulletin here (MB copyright) and it was not posted at the US forum but I could pass the info for the owners who had the issue and are still interested.

[1NDYT]

Diesel,

I'd still be interested. I haven't fixed mine yet.
Waiting on SteveMBNL to get back to me to see if he can supply internal lamp motors.

Lights are selling on German Ebay far cheaper than they are here but don't feel comfortable buying off ebay...especially from Germany.

So any tips would be great.

[jaymanek]

German Ebay is probably one of the safest places to buy from IMO.

[Diesel Benz]

Diesel,

I'd still be interested. I haven't fixed mine yet.
Waiting on SteveMBNL to get back to me to see if he can supply internal lamp motors.

Lights are selling on German Ebay far cheaper than they are here but don't feel comfortable buying off ebay...especially from Germany.

So any tips would be great.

Can you post a few more messages so that I can send you private mail (or you can send me a reminder).

[Diesel Benz]

German Ebay is probably one of the safest places to buy from IMO.

I agree, although I don't by anything too expensive from eBay, I could well buy headlights from the German eBay if the seller generally appears OK.

[1NDYT]

Diesel,

....how many posts do i need to make in-order for you to be able PM me. Could you not just send me a reply if i PM you?

[1NDYT]

Just had a look on my profile.

Would it be fair assumption that i can't PM or start new threads until i've made a specific number of posts?:confused:

[Diesel Benz]

Just had a look on my profile.

Would it be fair assumption that i can't PM or start new threads until i've made a specific number of posts?:confused:

Yes, if I remember right, you have one more to go. :bannana:

[Diesel Benz]

Diesel,

....how many posts do i need to make in-order for you to be able PM me. Could you not just send me a reply if i PM you?

I cannot send you PM if you cannot send me one. I questioned this recently and got beaten about a bad idea, don't even remember the arguments.

[raymont]

Any difference between headlamps for RHD and LHD cars.

They were different on my previous car, a LR Disco 3.

[1NDYT]

are you a member of the american site (_ _world.org). I've PM'd someone there before. I reckon i could do the same if you're a member.

[1NDYT]

I've been told that the W211 lights have a lever inside that can be switched left or right for correct roadside illumination.

So if i end up buying from Germany this is what i would aim to do.

[raymont]

The lights on my current car have the lever to adjust them for driving on the other side of the road. I adjusted them for a trip to Europe last Christmas and the effect seems to be that the beam pattern is modified so that dazzle is reduced but not changed to the pattern you would get with headlights designed for driving on the right. Doesn't appear to be completely effective as I've received a couple of flashes when driving at night in Europe.

Even with the lights set for driving on the right the illumination when driving in this country is perfectly adequate.

Given that they work perfectly adequately in UK even when adjusted for European driving, and as I make fairly frequent trips to Europe, I leave them set for European driving.

[1NDYT]

Ray,

Have u ever taken you car for an MOT with the European setting on it?

[Diesel Benz]

I've been told that the W211 lights have a lever inside that can be switched left or right for correct roadside illumination.

So if i end up buying from Germany this is what i would aim to do.

While buying from Germany would be safe, I would not buy LHD head lights for a RHD car, I'm afraid it is too obvious to be spotted at MOT. But perhaps raymont can talk from experience?

[raymont]

No MOT experience as car isn't old enough.

Another thought, whilst it's true that RHD car lights have a lever to deal with driving on the other side of the road, do LHD car lights have a similar feature?

We need to adjust our lights whenever we go almost any other country, so the feature is quite useful, whereas people living in continental europe only need to adjust their lights when they visit the UK or Ireland.

[Diesel Benz]

We need to adjust our lights whenever we go almost any other country, so the feature is quite useful, whereas people living in continental europe only need to adjust their lights when they visit the UK or Ireland.

I don't know if you would prefer us staying at the continent but also LHD cars have the switch to turn of asymmetric lights:

http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual-cars/ba/cars/221/en/in-depth/d13e59693.shtml#d13e59713

[raymont]

I don't know if you would prefer us staying at the continent but also LHD cars have the switch to turn of asymmetric lights:

http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual-cars/ba/cars/221/en/in-depth/d13e59693.shtml#d13e59713
Just wondered, and please visit us anytime!

[1NDYT]

I rang a Merc garage today and this one gave me my part number (previous one said its not something they give out!) for the Headlamp.

The number was different from that seen on the German Curve Light Headlamps.
So i think Diesel is correct. Which brings me back to square 1.

BTW Diesel, thanks for your PM. If its a case of chaffed wires then i'm laughing. Just need to get hold of that sealant that Merc uses to glue the Lens Cover to the Headlight Housing before pulling everything apart again.

I also learnt that the Curve Light Headlamps have one motor which is how many the normal/vertical stabiliser Xenons have.

It is however, different to the normal/vertical stabiliser Xenon motors. The curve light motor has an additional gearing mechanism in it which gives it the Horizontal check as well.

Thats what i was told anyway.

If anyone finds out where I can get that heat resistant sealant from please let me know.

p.s. I asked Merc and was told they don't sell it...unless i'm asking the wrong question!

[glojo]

The number was different from that seen on the German Curve Light Headlamps.Hi Indy,
Don't forget our active headlights are completely different from those fitted to the facelift E-class.

There have been numerous updates\modifications to the electronics on our cars and I would recommend you get the correct year\month part, or perhaps the correct 'heat resiliant sealant':devil: ;)

Good luck getting this isuue fixed

Regards
John

[Diesel Benz]

The correct part number is so easy to reach either based on the part number on the old unit (the current part number may be different) or from the car VIN.

I've never seen detailed enough description of the headlight internals, interesting if they really are only using a single motor (could this be after the two dimensional dancing was removed?).

Actually would be interesting to compare the head light part numbers between the two of you who have the same functionality.

[prprandall51]

But Dieselman's earlier post is absolutely right - it is almost inconceivable that one motor is used to adjust the headlight alignment in two separate planes - horizontal and vertical. That would require miniature clutches, gearboxes and a whole shedload of failure-prone mechanics worthy of Heath Robinson.

I will eat my keyboard if there is one motor to handle both alignments.

[glojo]

Actually would be interesting to compare the head light part numbers between the two of you who have the same functionality.Age wise I do not think there is much difference in our vehicles but if the part number is easily accessible then I will certainly have a go at getting it.

To highlight how different items are continually changed, Richard commented on the module we have in our vehicle for COMAND\Linguatronic. I am way, way out of my depth here and hopefully Richard might comment but I believe on my vehicle there were two modules, compared to one on vehicles only slightly newer. My guess is it relates to the summer 2004 cut-backs\modifications.

Please feel free to peak up regarding part numbers, but bear in mind I am not the fittest person on the block :o :o :o

regards
Unfit John

[1NDYT]

The Part No. for my nearside headlamp is A211820/2161. This i got off Merc after giving them my chassis number and not off the actual headlamp.

Merc quoted £649+VAT, InchCape website states £580+vat.

The German Headlamp 'Kurvenlicht' Part No for the non-facelift is A211820/1961. The American part no. for the same model light, n/s, is A211820/2361 and that you would have thought would be the same as the German Lamp because in both countries they drive on the wrong side.

The facelift curve lights have what looks like a horizontal grill across the front indicator. Otherwise in appearance they appear to be exactly the same.

Glojo can confirm this, but there is only one Cylindrical shape at the back of these curve light casings. Which is why i thought there was only one motor, although Diesel did explain that this was unlikely.

The back of the casing is exactly the same as a normal Xenon, so i reckon it has to be one motor. Time for some research!

[Diesel Benz]

1NDYT, did you find the part number from the lamp assembly too? It should be the one your parts guy gave as there are no parts that have been replaced with the one you got from the parts guy.

The US lights are different from German, the US type approval indications are different as well as the light pattern (I believe they do not allow asymmetric lights, don't ask why).

While I had a look at the head light units part numbers, I found some odd parts, like A2118204161 which applies for options 615/616/621/622. This means the same part for both left hand and right hand traffic cars. Anybody knows how this works, sounds like the same part handles both asymmetry options?

[Diesel Benz]

The wiring diagrams and functional descriptions show separate motors for horizontal and vertical adjustments but I have not seen any figures showing the location of the horizontal control motor and the vertical control motor both at the same time, not even from Hella or other manufacturer's documents (those must exists, I just have not seen any). As above, one or the other for different lamps is shown.

[1NDYT]

Strange that wiring diagrams show two motors.

I suppose it makes sense but maybe when there is an Horizontal option there is a different type of motor in the Cylindrical housing which does both Vertical and Horizontal movements.

May be thats why you don't see locations for both at the same time and that there is no visible difference from the outside of the Headlight Housing?

[1NDYT]

There must be someone here who's taken a headlamp apart before?

Just need to know what Sealant/Adhesive you used stick it all back together:confused: