TMC (Dynamic Route planning) Yes or No?

[melv]

My wife has recently took delivery of her new C Class – very, very nice! Unlike the previous C Class Comand, the new Comand System can plan routes dynamically by using TMC data. My wife travels alot of business miles, my question is, how good is the Dynamic route planning? Would you use it? or is it more trouble than it's worth?

Any feedback much appreciated.

Melv

[amwebby]

I use it and it is worthwhile with varying results. Often it doesn't know about holdups or fails to calculate an alternative route. All this is dependent on the data they receive of course and perhaps the UK data isn't always up to date. Certainly when I was travelling in Germany late last year it was very good, advising me of tailbacks in advance and advising alternative routes.

It worth using as it doesn't hinder progress and may be helpful.

[culpano]

My wife has recently took delivery of her new C Class – very, very nice! Unlike the previous C Class Comand, the new Comand System can plan routes dynamically by using TMC data. My wife travels alot of business miles, my question is, how good is the Dynamic route planning? Would you use it? or is it more trouble than it's worth?

Any feedback much appreciated.

Melv


It's totally rubbish.

[MBManInKen]

My wife travels alot of business miles, my question is, how good is the Dynamic route planning? Would you use it? or is it more trouble than it's worth?

It's no extra trouble at all, the process is largely the same apart from selecting dynamic routing. The system will then receive and process TMC and guide you around problems.

I use it most of the time and it has certainly helped me more than once to avoid quite horrendous queues and other incidents, both here and abroad.

[Rory]

I don't know really - the data source seems a bit iffy to me. It uses transmitters on trucks and coaches that are stuck in delays, togther with other traffic information but I think the uploading of it is essentially a manual process.

I drove from Chester to London and back yesterday, and it's forever rerouting itself "due to current traffic messages" but you can't really see what it's doing so the diversion could be stupid. On a couple of occaisions it showed slow traffic but there was no problem.

I have let it divert me off the M40 a couple of times, and I've found myself on roads running parallel to the motorway and been able to see the motorway stopped, which is a nice feeeling! However, so many people use the diversion route that it gets jammed up too - especially at junctions not designed to take high volume traffic.

[culpano]

The system is dog slow. It shows you the congestion symbol on the screen about 15 minutes after you are stuck in the jam. On other occasions it shows congestion and yet the road is clear. It only works on motorways so it basically pants. It has never helped me once.

[Stratman]

I notice that my Comand has the TMC tick-box greyed out. I assume this means that the unit itself recognises TMC but that my CD doesn't have it. Would I be correct in assuming that if I bought an upgraded navigation CD then it would burst into life?

[amwebby]

I notice that my Comand has the TMC tick-box greyed out. I assume this means that the unit itself recognises TMC but that my CD doesn't have it. Would I be correct in assuming that if I bought an upgraded navigation CD then it would burst into life?

Yep

[Muppetz]

I like the TMC routing, it has helped me out many times !

[BTB 500]

Does TMC broadcast how long an incident will last? If not, how can you (or COMAND, or anything else) decide whether to re-route round it or not? If you are still some distance away that part of the route may be clear by the time you get there anyway!

[glojo]

TMC is okee dokee, there might be better systems out there but owt is better than nowt. I would guess that TMC is TMC and it makes no difference whether it's fitted in a BMW, Lexus or Mercedes. Go for it and take advantage of the advice it gives. The only time I've cursed it is when I knew best and ignored the warning it gave to avoid a route :o :o :o

Regards
John

[Muppetz]

Does TMC broadcast how long an incident will last? If not, how can you (or COMAND, or anything else) decide whether to re-route round it or not? If you are still some distance away that part of the route may be clear by the time you get there anyway!

Obviously TMC can't know how long an incident will last. Think of it as the Nav listening to Radio 2 for you and marking all the hold ups that sally traffic talks about on the map for you ;) Once the incident is reported as clear then the marker is removed from your map and routing.

[glojo]

Does TMC broadcast how long an incident will last? If not, how can you (or COMAND, or anything else) decide whether to re-route round it or not? If you are still some distance away that part of the route may be clear by the time you get there anyway!Our COMAND has warned of delays on our route but as we got nearer the warning was removed and the route showed clear on the display.

John

[BTB 500]

Obviously TMC can't know how long an incident will last.Why not? I assume it's manually updated by someone ... that could include an assessment (best guess) of how long an incident is going to last.

But assuming it doesn't, I stand by my comment! Suppose your route is M1, M25, M4 and you are on the M1 when a TMC delay pops up on the M4. Do you want your satnav to dynamically re-route (which is what we're talking about) now, and take you cross-country to avoid a jam that would probably have gone by the time you got there if you followed the original route?

[Muppetz]

Why not? I assume it's manually updated by someone ... that could include an assessment (best guess) of how long an incident is going to last.

But assuming it doesn't, I stand by my comment! Suppose your route is M1, M25, M4 and you are on the M1 when a TMC delay pops up on the M4. Do you want your satnav to dynamically re-route (which is what we're talking about) now, and take you cross-country to avoid a jam that would probably have gone by the time you got there if you followed the original route?

You are right, they could take a guess, but I expect real life (and death) would make any attempt at guessing wildly inaccurate - how long will it take for the paramedics to effect a rescue, or the police to clear the vehicles, or record the relevant info before doing so ?

TMC is good, but is limited by the information available too it.

As I said earlier, think of it as akin to the traffic reports on radio 2 etc - the same is true there, the incident may or may not be clear by the time you get there. - but at least you are getting as much information as possible to help you make decisions on your route home.

Also TMC does know the impacted area of any incident, and so the alternative route tends to avoid that section only rather than completely send you another way.

Anyway, its all down to opinion I guess, I like it, gives me good info on what's going on either on route to wherever I am going that day. (circa 30-50k miles per year, different location everyday)

[glojo]

Why not? I assume it's manually updated by someone ... that could include an assessment (best guess) of how long an incident is going to last.

But assuming it doesn't, I stand by my comment! Suppose your route is M1, M25, M4 and you are on the M1 when a TMC delay pops up on the M4. Do you want your satnav to dynamically re-route (which is what we're talking about) now, and take you cross-country to avoid a jam that would probably have gone by the time you got there if you followed the original route?From experience I have been on the M42 and have been warned of long delays on our route, namely M5 at Bristol. The dynamic routing worked out a new route but as we travelled along the M5 towards Bristol the system continually receives updates and the route reassessed. The delay must have cleared as we the route was amended back to the original.

John

[BTB 500]

You do sometimes get a timescale on the radio though e.g. motorway being closed for the rest of the day (say) after a major accident.

I think we are actually agreeing though that while TMC is useful information to have, you wouldn't necessarily want it to automatically re-route you ... which is what the OP was about?

[Muppetz]

You do sometimes get a timescale on the radio though e.g. motorway being closed for the rest of the day (say) after a major accident.

I think we are actually agreeing though that while TMC is useful information to have, you wouldn't necessarily want it to automatically re-route you ... which is what the OP was about?

Agreed, I use my judgement to either accept its re-route, or ignore it (in which case it then returns back to the original, or sets another re-route further down the road)

[amwebby]

In the UK TMC uses the same information supplied to AA Roadwatch by ITIS. http://www.itisholdings.com/itmc.asp The thing is I've dialled into AA Roadwatch and received information that does not show on COMAND. I don't know how it works but it is not as up to date.

I don't know who provides the information in Germany but it is far more up to date and reliable.

[glojo]

In the UK TMC uses the same information supplied to AA Roadwatch by ITIS. http://www.itisholdings.com/itmc.asp The thing is I've dialled into AA Roadwatch and received information that does not show on COMAND. I don't know how it works but it is not as up to date.

I don't know who provides the information in Germany but it is far more up to date and reliable.I thought ALL TMC navigational systems received the same information via Classic FM and to receive this the manufacturer has to buy a licence?

I have been told that TMC is not the best or most accurate up todate system that's available

REgards
John

[amwebby]

Yep that is the method of transmission.

"RDS-TMC ("Radio Data System-Traffic Message Channel") is an internationally-accepted standard for broadcasting traffic data over the RDS sub-carrier on FM radio. "

It's not just Classic FM, although they are the only station with national coverage. I have picked up TMC on regional radio.

[Mactech]

Sat nav is great tool. The TMC gives us more information, but like a map,
we must learn to read it. The more information we have, the better judgement we are likley to make. We still have to make the call and I wouldn't want it any other way;)

[melv]

Many thanks for all the feedback – very informative!

My initial thoughts are we will leave 'dynamic' (TMC) inactive and stick to the 'fast route' option, wait until we're up to speed with operating the new Comand Navi system and they maybe try TMC on a few Journeys.

Thanks again to all.

[crockers]

I use it and when in Germany it saved us a lot ... in UK coming back what I noticed was that although it may not re-route it does recalculate the eta based on traffice etc.

Pity it doesnt use Trafficmaster info tho....

[Diesel Benz]

Not perhaps on the usefulness of TMC but some previous discussion here:
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=44547&highlight=trafficmaster

Note that UK has two different providers. Like MB and Audi using different sources (Itis versus Trafficmaster).
http://tmcforum.ertico.webhouse.net/en/about_tmc/tmc_services_today/united_kingdom.htm

Some navigation units receive TMC data through a cell phone (GPRS) connection but all OEM car devices I believe use FM radio RDS.

[BTB 500]

Some navigation units receive TMC data through a cell phone (GPRS) connectionTomTom uses GPRS for their own "Traffic" (subscription) service, and receives TMC via an add-on receiver. You can have neither, either, or both!

[prprandall51]

Does TMC broadcast how long an incident will last? If not, how can you (or COMAND, or anything else) decide whether to re-route round it or not? If you are still some distance away that part of the route may be clear by the time you get there anyway!

Duration data is - or should be - broadcast together with the incident description. For example, if the council close a road for roadworks the TMC data can be broadcast with an appropriate "time-to-live" value that will allow the incident to remain active for several days.

I have not seen Comand particularly good at this, though.

Philip

[DieselE]

Many thanks for all the feedback – very informative!

My initial thoughts are we will leave 'dynamic' (TMC) inactive and stick to the 'fast route' option, wait until we're up to speed with operating the new Comand Navi system and they maybe try TMC on a few Journeys.

Thanks again to all.

Even if you don't use Dynamic Route, you'll still get all the pretty yellow and red cars showing delays in your immediate vicinity on the map.

Over the next few weeks, just count the times you've been at a standstill with red cars on the screen. Then you can decide whether having Dynamic Routing turned on might have been helpful. :)

[prprandall51]

I don't know who provides the information in Germany but it is far more up to date and reliable.

The government, who have sensibly identified traffic information as a national asset so that the country and its citizens benefit from the resulting reductions in wasted man-hours spent in queues.

Our bunch of muppets decided that traffic information was something the motorist should pay for and that they could raise revenue off the back of (err, indirect taxation) by licensing traffic data collection rights to TrafficMaster.

Philip

[television]

The problem with Traficmaster is that the plane only flies over the major towns during peak hours, mainly in the mornings, and most of the info comes from the cameras

[Dave's E55 AMG]

I use mine everyday, it can sometimes be a lttle out of date as regarding where the traffic is. I know most of the routes I go on, it tells me there's queing traffic ahead tries to divert me and when I get there there's no traffic so I over rule it and carry on.

[Rory]

The problem with Traficmaster is that the plane only flies over the major towns during peak hours, mainly in the mornings, and most of the info comes from the cameras
:confused:

TrafficMaster's data comes from the blue roadside and motorway bridge mounted sensors.

It's transmitted to cars using RDS-TMC, broadcast by many commercial radio stations (the receiver picks them up automatically, doesn't have to be tuned to a particular station).

[whitenemesis]

I use it most days and find it very good.

One doesn't have to use route guidance to take advantage of TMC. Just displaying the map will give you the various symbols and the detailed TMC data is readable via softkey

[BTB 500]

Displaying traffic info. in your vicinity is fine, and useful. But on longer trips automatic re-routing based on that info. often isn't.

Example, driving to Newbold on Avon from where I am (a trip I do a couple of times a year, leaving early Saturday morning).

Optimum route is M3, M25, M1, M6. I set off, and joining the M25 a 20 minute delay is identified halfway up the M1. Satnav re-routes around it, now choosing to send me up the M40 instead - a longer route, involving 25 miles of non-motorway driving at the other end. Is this a great feature? I would suggest not, because the chances are quite high that the delay on the M1 would have gone by the time I got there anyway.

So I choose not to have it re-route. I want to see the traffic info. on-screen and the current total delay, I will then make a decision once I'm a bit nearer. If by any chance it is still bad I'll take a more local diversion to skirt around it (aided by the satnav of course).

[whitenemesis]

I have found that the re-routing only takes place quite locally to the congestion. In efect a "local" diversion.

Perhaps this is because I have "Avoid motorways" selected?

[robert.saunders]

Picking up on Bill's comment, how does the TomTom Traffic service work? I use that and it seems decent enough and has the option to re-route. However, is that sourced the same way as TMC?

[television]

:confused:

TrafficMaster's data comes from the blue roadside and motorway bridge mounted sensors.

It's transmitted to cars using RDS-TMC, broadcast by many commercial radio stations (the receiver picks them up automatically, doesn't have to be tuned to a particular station).

Yes I know what the blue cameras are, my best friend in Watford piloted the plane for them a few years back

[BTB 500]

Picking up on Bill's comment, how does the TomTom Traffic service work? I use that and it seems decent enough and has the option to re-route. However, is that sourced the same way as TMC?No it's a different service, provided only by TomTom. As mentioned, you can add a TMC receiver to most TomToms to get that as well for the best of both worlds!

[robert.saunders]

I have a TomTom One at the moment, very pleased with it, but I like the upgraded models a lot, my dad has a 910 which is nice and easy to use, some clever features...

Anyway, thanks for that. When I check the HA traffic (http://www.highways.gov.uk/traffic/traffic.aspx) this often gives time for an incident to end, I wonder how that is calculcated

[BarryS]

TMC has never helped me - info is either too late and traffic is already held-up or not updated and congestion has gone - and re-routing to avoid phantom delays would have been a disaster. As it's so unreliable I just don't use it at all now.

[BTB 500]

my dad has a 910 which is nice and easy to use, some clever features...We also have a 910, which has been invaluable on trips to my in-laws in the South of Germany. Having all of Europe (including speed cameras) on the hard drive is very convenient.

Have you seen that TomTom are offering 50% discount on new maps until the end of January?

[robert.saunders]

Yes, thanks for that info, my dad had already updated his a few weeks ago, I forgot all about it until your helpful reminder just now; shall update mine shortly ;)

[speedybiker]

I travell to London and back to Glasgow a lot and mine works fine.
It's got me out of long traffic jams a few times, I know this because theres always 2 or 3 cars travelling in our group and they call me and moan that they are stuck in trafic.

Alex.

[Rory]

It's got me out of long traffic jams a few times, I know this because theres always 2 or 3 cars travelling in our group and they call me and moan that they are stuck in trafic.

That would be brilliant - to have surplus cars that you could send on other routes to validate your own decision, instead of having to wonder whether you did the right thing or not! :bannana:

[prprandall51]

Yes I know what the blue cameras are, my best friend in Watford piloted the plane for them a few years back

More likely he was contracted to Metro Networks than TrafficMaster? Metro Networks ran all those "Eye in the Sky" plane-spotting services on behalf of the various radio stations. I am not aware of TrafficMaster ever using any data other than their roadside sensors.

Philip

[Stratman]

Yep that is the method of transmission.

"RDS-TMC ("Radio Data System-Traffic Message Channel") is an internationally-accepted standard for broadcasting traffic data over the RDS sub-carrier on FM radio. "

It's not just Classic FM, although they are the only station with national coverage. I have picked up TMC on regional radio.

Another dumb question. Must I be listening to an FM station which carries TMC for it to work? I must confess to being a Radio 5 listener for long journeys. Would that stop TMC working?

[amwebby]

Yep. Mostly that means Classic FM

[Stratman]

Yep. Mostly that means Classic FM

Thanks for the quick reply. Classic FM isn't too bad I suppose. They don't play "Hoodies pointing at the floor" music.

[crockers]

The problem with Traficmaster is that the plane only flies over the major towns during peak hours, mainly in the mornings, and most of the info comes from the cameras


Malcolm

Traffic master also gets their data from those little blue boxes than many people confuse with speed cameras etc ..


OOPPSSS.....just read further posts ...........so please ignore........

[glojo]

Yep. Mostly that means Classic FMI think you should add a provisio.

No you do not need to be tuned into the transmitting station if the navigational system has two tuners. COMAND in the 211 series has this, my Pioneer navigation system also has this option.

Regards
John

[prprandall51]

Another dumb question. Must I be listening to an FM station which carries TMC for it to work? I must confess to being a Radio 5 listener for long journeys. Would that stop TMC working?

You are stuck with listening to Classic (or a CD or tape) unless you have a "Diversity" tuner, which incorporates two separate radio tuners. One to collect RDS data (including TMC) and one for you to listen to.

[richard]

I think you should add a provisio.

No you do not need to be tuned into the transmitting station if the navigational system has two tuners. COMAND in the 211 series has this, my Pioneer navigation system also has this option.

Regards
John

The COMAND-APS in A/B/C/CLK/ML/GL/R (etc) all seem to support this hapilly. John says E class (and thus CLS) and likely SL/SLK do so as-well.

Comand 2.0 (even though it alledgedly has twin tuners, certianly has 2 antenna inputs) always re-tunes to a TMC station (which for me has only ever been classic FM)

Richard

[madbazoo]

I have an 03 reg C220CDi fitted with Sat Nav and upgraded the CD in 2007.

Whilst I now have the option of TMC I don't see any benefit.

I regularly drive across the M62 every week (one of the worst motorways in the UK for traffic accidents and holdups) and whilst it regular tells me there are traffic holdus ahead and says it is re-routing me it has NEVER done so in 12 months and my only solution is a manual diversion.

I also see nothing on my display on the maps.

Do I need some other upgrade to get this wo work?

Thanks for any advice.

Barry

[prprandall51]

Seeing no symbols on the map sounds like there is something wrong but the announcement about possible re-routing indicates that TMC data is being received and processed by Comand.

The department of Transport (probably called something else now) did a study of the time value of diversions on major routes and established that in 90% of cases, the driver would be better advised to stay on the arterial route and sit out the holdup than to execute a diversion. Comand frequently announces it is re-calculating a route because of traffic messages and then sticks to the originally proposed route. This behaviour is completely in concordance with the DoT research, so don't be put off by the fact that you have never been re-routed.

Philip

[BTB 500]

As discussed before, unless you know the likely duration of the blockage it's a complete lottery whether diverting is a good idea or not. Normally you get a better idea of this from RDS announcements on the radio as you hear what the actual problem is and can assess whether it's worth changing your route or not.

[amwebby]

COMAND announces it is rerouting whenever it receives updated data. Whether it reroutes or not is, as has been said, dependent on whether there is a viable route that would be shorter than the delay.

[BTB 500]

Whether it reroutes or not is, as has been said, dependent on whether there is a viable route that would be shorter than the delay.How does it know how long the delay will be?

[amwebby]

I assume so. Traffic information comes from ITIS, the same people who supply it to the AA. When I phone the AA the advice always gives an estimate of how long any delay will be.

[BTB 500]

I didn't think the TMC data stream contained duration ... might be wrong though.

[MBManInKen]

I didn't think the TMC data stream contained duration ... might be wrong though.

You are wrong :D, although I must say that is quite atypical ;). TMC messages define the following 5 basic (i.e. non optional) fields:

Event Description
Location
Direction and Extent
Duration
Diversion AdviceDuration indicates how long the event is expected to last, diversion advice indicates whether or not users are recommended to find another route. As prprandall51 correctly says, it is not always better to take a different route.

However! The Duration field (3 bits) can be set to 0, which means "no explicit duration provided" and which means the event timer is not decremented. I have no idea how often UK TMC providers use the 0 value or how COMAND reacts to that.

Diversion advice is a 1-bit flag (0=no advice given, 1=users are recommended to avoid the area).

My COMAND has diverted me sometimes, but obviously not always as it's not always quicker to be diverted.

It seems to me that the weakest link is the TMC information provider, not COMAND that unfairly gets the flak in this thread. I drive on the continent a lot (being a continental :crazy:), and in some countries TMC is received a lot more frequently and leads to more frequent diversions than over here in the UK. COMAND can't compensate for poor TMC information received.

Finally, in a country like Belgium, where the road network us very dense in large parts of the country, diversion might make more often sense than in the UK.

[BTB 500]

I'm sure the data is the issue. I don't have COMAND, but I did subscribe to the TomTom Traffic service (GPRS) for a year and found similar issues. Although being able to browse text information about an incident was often useful - heading back to the Eurotunnel we got stuck in a jam in Belgium (funnily enough!), looked at the info which said "accident now cleared" and sure enough we were moving in a few minutes.

[Shude]

COMAND/TMC has only diverted me once. I was on my way to the motorway and every step of the way I was being told to go the other direction! It was a journey I travelled very frequently but I followed the instructions and took the odd route on a totally different motorway. When I got home I had a look at the news and the M6 had been closed due to a pile-up so actually the directions insanity was all for good reason!

[Rory]

It kept diverting me when I was "down South" recently - I was travelling up the A34 to the M4 to cross it and continue A34 to M40, there was a problem on the A34 and it kept switching between M4/M5 (a heck of a diversion) or the M4 / A404? (Maidenhead to High Wycombe) link.

In the event as I got to A34 it resumed the original route and all was well. But it certainly come up with new routes.

[crockers]

What I have noticed is that even if it can't divert you because there is no better route -- it does update your ETA....based on traffic conditions - etc

[skymastor]

I have only ever got this working once on my command unit, but that was through when I planned a route. Does anyone know if you can get this working just when you have it on current map view?

[Alfie]

I have only ever got this working once on my command unit, but that was through when I planned a route. Does anyone know if you can get this working just when you have it on current map view?

With Comand APS the map view will show congestion whether you are navigating or not. It is shown as a series of red or yellow cars depending on whether the traffic is moving or not. Sadly this is not the case with Comand 2.

[skymastor]

B*mmer! Thought there would be a technical reason why not! Anyhow, thanks Alfie. I knew somehow that you would reply to that! On another note (from a previous thread) I still need to spk with you reference a dash mod to show outside temp instead of the speed. Believe your the man for this? I'm N London. Will PM you.. :-)

[MBManInKen]

Sadly this is not the case with Comand 2.

I have a COMAND 2.5DX and it shows congestion or other traffic trouble as red dotted lines, with warning triangles. :)

[amwebby]

I have a COMAND 2.5DX and it shows congestion or other traffic trouble as red dotted lines, with warning triangles. :)

Is that on current map view, i.e. not navigating? I have COMAND 2.5 and use this view a lot but have never noticed the congestion and, as current view doesn't read TMC I don't expect it to.

[MBManInKen]

Is that on current map view, i.e. not navigating? I have COMAND 2.5 and use this view a lot but have never noticed the congestion and, as current view doesn't read TMC I don't expect it to.

Navigation, as I almost never use the current position map function. I think COMAND 2.5 simply does not receive TMC if you are not in dynamic navi mode.

If it would, it could only do this with the radio on and tuned to Classic FM. Might be worth trying: tune in to Classic FM and bring up the current position map to see if it will download and display traffic info. But I doubt it to be honest.

EDIT: I'm an idiot, skymastor asked specifically about this with regard to the non navigation map, which was the question Alfie answered correctly, then I came in and muddled the waters by referring to the navigation map situation. :crazy: