Urgent Help Please! Can't Start The Car [Archive]

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Westy

11-01-2008, 04:39 PM

Hi all,

Not been on the forum for a while as all has been well and not done anything to the car for a bit!

Vehicle: E230 Saloon on an N Plate (W210 I believe)

OK, problem started to day when I arrived at a customers some 40 miles from home. Car would not lock with the fob. Slight panic set in as by this time the immobiliser had cut in, but did my job and, fortunately, when I came to leave about an hour later the car locked and unlocked!

Got back to my home town and stopped to do another quick job, car would not lock! Did the job, came out, still wouldn't lock!

As I was literally in the road where I live, I walked back and tested the fob thangy! Red light comes on when you press it for a few seconds, both batteries tested at 3.02V, which I guess is OK - but changed the batteries anyway.

Back to car and tried re-syncing the fob by pressing button briefly twice, turn key to position two then point an press once - still NADA!

So the car is stuck in a school zone, outside a customers house, blocking his and his neighbours driveway, OOPS!

I have checked the fuses, which seem OK, the drivers mirror lights flash like they are supposed to if you try to start it with the immobiliser armed.

However, I think the central locking might be stuffed as when the drivers door button is pressed down none of the other doors lock (I pressume that they are supposed to!)

Any ideas where to start please? Really have got to get the car shifted toute-suite! :confused: :confused: :confused:

television

11-01-2008, 04:45 PM

You could listen to see if the Pump runs when you try and lock, pushing down the button would do

Westy

11-01-2008, 04:49 PM

Hi Television,

No noise from any pumps (or whirs, knocks, clicks etc.) if the button on the drivers door card is pressed! And the fob thing is doing diddly-squat presently!

television

11-01-2008, 04:54 PM

I do not know much about these alarms, or immobilisers

The locking section is in the link and I think that the pump is under the rear seat (if wrong someone please correct)

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=210055&M=104%2E995&GA=722%2E329722%2E509722%2E605&CT=F&cat=45P&SID=80&SGR=045&SGN=03

Dieselman

11-01-2008, 04:56 PM

The door button doesn't actuate the central locking, it's done by the dash switch.

Not sure but isn't the alarm box under the passenger footwell carpet.

jaymanek

11-01-2008, 04:57 PM

Westy

11-01-2008, 05:02 PM

The door button doesn't actuate the central locking, it's done by the dash switch.

Not sure but isn't the alarm box under the passenger footwell carpet.

I forgot about dash button Dieselman, thanks.

bolide

11-01-2008, 05:03 PM

Westy

11-01-2008, 05:07 PM

these systems are rubbish... put the car in neutral and push it somewhere safe..

You will probably need te AA or someone to get you to a garage who can strip out the crappy original alarm/immobiliser and put a proper one in..

I've got a tow organised now.

But do I really want to got to the expense of a new alarm/immobiliser when this could be something quite simple!?

Have i got the fob re-sync procedure correct or do i need to do something with the passenger door lock?

jaymanek

11-01-2008, 05:13 PM

A new alarm is around £200 for a cat 2, it will be much more reliable than these mid 90's mercedes ones that are always going wrong..

where in the country are you?

Westy

11-01-2008, 05:15 PM

Hi jaymanek,

In North West Essex.

Maybe you are right, but was going to trade the car in soon, would rather not spend more than I have to!

television

11-01-2008, 05:23 PM

Someone posted a few days ago on a 210 where the sync was done the same as a 202 and borrowed from the other forum

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=26895

And it worked for them

Westy

11-01-2008, 05:31 PM

Someone posted a few days ago on a 210 where the sync was done the same as a 202 and borrowed from the other forum

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=26895

And it worked for them

Thanks Television, I had seen that and tried it - but to no avail unfortunately.

The lights on the mirror don't respond to the fob, just flash alternate red/green when you turn the ignition to position 2.

The fob is working, as you can see the light through a digital camera!

Just seems that the car is not receiving the signal or the re-sync procedure is wrong!

Diesel Benz

11-01-2008, 05:33 PM

Just seems that the car is not receiving the signal or the re-sync procedure is wrong!

The car would see the key if the key turns. The key is then authorised.

If it doesn't turn, did you check if the key-hole is dirty?

Westy

11-01-2008, 05:35 PM

The car would see the key if the key turns. The key is then authorised.

If it doesn't turn, did you check if the key-hole is dirty?

Sorry, me no comprende?!? Authorised? :confused: :confused:

Key turns fine, clean as a whistle!

Westy

11-01-2008, 06:38 PM

The car would see the key if the key turns. The key is then authorised.

If it doesn't turn, did you check if the key-hole is dirty?

Does the key have a transponder? I thought that the alarm, immobiliser and central locking were all functions of the IR between the fob and the receiver in the mirror.

gbjeppm

11-01-2008, 06:48 PM

Not trying to be clever, but have you tried the other key?

Westy

11-01-2008, 06:50 PM

I wish it was that simple, I don't have another key!

But thanks anyway.

Diesel Benz

11-01-2008, 07:42 PM

Does the key have a transponder? I thought that the alarm, immobiliser and central locking were all functions of the IR between the fob and the receiver in the mirror.

I'm not sure which model year an N-plate car would be but you mentioned you had checked the IR transmitter from the key. If it has an IR transmitter, it would communicate over IR with the EIS. This communication is powered by the RF field from EIS, like on other cars (no key battery needed) but MB doesn't respond with an RF signal.

I remember someone explaining that the IR lens at EIS had simply collected too much dirt and that made it work randomly. Of course there are other malfunction options, but not that many equally easy to rule out (by cleaning the IR lens).

I would suggest a poll on owners who only have one key for the car, it is surprisingly common.

MBManInKen

11-01-2008, 07:45 PM

I'm not sure which model year an N-plate car would be

According to this site (http://www.ukcar.com/features/reg_year.htm) N = 01 August 1995-31 July 1996.

jaymanek

11-01-2008, 07:45 PM

this doesnt have an EIS... its pre all that, a 95-96 car and so has the flip out style..

television

11-01-2008, 08:09 PM

this doesnt have an EIS... its pre all that, a 95-96 car and so has the flip out style..

Correct EIS only uses the MB alarm

Diesel Benz

11-01-2008, 08:10 PM

this doesnt have an EIS... its pre all that, a 95-96 car and so has the flip out style..

Thanks for making that clear. I thought the owner had checked the IR light with a camera, the basic test, but it was just testing the read indicator light came on. Sorry for the wrong track.

television

11-01-2008, 08:12 PM

Thanks for making that clear. I thought the owner had checked the IR light with a camera, the basic test, but it was just testing the read indicator light came on. Sorry for the wrong track.

The camera test does prove that the IR is working and nothing else, you can do the same test with you TV remote.
I use a credit card size card tester

Westy

11-01-2008, 10:21 PM

Well thanks for all of your help so far guys, but I'm still up the proverbial without a paddle!

So far I have established that the fob is (or appears) to be working, the central locking still functions via the dash switch and that the mirror flasy lights are doing what they always did when you tried to start it with the immobiliser armed.

Anyone got any ideas what might be at fault or the best place to start looking?

Maybe the IR receiver in the mirror, is this serviceable?

I realise that these systems might be pants, but it's worked for 11 years so far and that's not a bad run. Just a shame it couldn't work for another month or two, until I got shot! :mad:

If you clever chaps can't help then I'm afraid it'll have to be a replacement system, but I'm not over keen on having several remote fobs on one key ring (oh yeah and having to fork out the £2-300.00 it'll cost).

So one last time, any ideas, please,......please!

recycled

11-01-2008, 10:32 PM

you may have to keep on turning the switch on and off continuously ,for up to fifty times.
Stupid it sounds but it has worked before and i still do not understand why?

television

11-01-2008, 10:34 PM

I am looking the car up to see if it has a starter lockout relay

television

11-01-2008, 10:41 PM

Westy

11-01-2008, 10:42 PM

you may have to keep on turning the switch on and off continuously ,for up to fifty times.
Stupid it sounds but it has worked before and i still do not understand why?

Thanks, but not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate a little for my simple mind.

Cheers

television

11-01-2008, 10:45 PM

Thanks, but not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate a little for my simple mind.

Cheers

I can help a little here, the alarm feeds the K38 relay, by keeping on turning the key this can correct the bad relay in the alarm that feeds the bad relay K38

Westy

11-01-2008, 10:45 PM

Yes the car has a K38 starter lockout relay, this is just behind the radio and it is a common fault on 129's as well.

Basically the spades on the terminals are a lousy fit and make poor contact, this relay can be take off or just bye passed.
'
You do need a voltmeter to see if you have 12 volt when you turn the key

Wow, that was quick work, thanks!

Although, I'm not sure how that will help me as the car does turn over! Would this relay affect the locking/unlocking and switching of the immobiliser?

Thanks again.

recycled

11-01-2008, 10:50 PM

well someone on here fixed his central locking /alarm by leaving the key in the ignition for 2hrs to reset itself.
He said the auto electricians have experienced the horrors of old merc immobilisers

television

11-01-2008, 10:55 PM

Wow, that was quick work, thanks!

Although, I'm not sure how that will help me as the car does turn over! Would this relay affect the locking/unlocking and switching of the immobiliser?

Thanks again.

OK you can forget some of this if the car turns over, now this is odd as the alarm stops it from turning over..

Can you please PM me with your Email address I have found a new sync process for the key

Westy

11-01-2008, 10:57 PM

Television,

Would the K8 relay affect the mirror IR receiver or cause the lights to not respond? As when I press the fob button nout happens at all! Wheras, when it was functioning, the red or green light would come on - depending if you were locking or closing. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

television

11-01-2008, 10:58 PM

television

11-01-2008, 11:01 PM

OK its gone, not a lot but the MB way of re setting the remote

Westy

11-01-2008, 11:02 PM

K what?

See, gone from my grey matter in a flash!

MBManInKen

11-01-2008, 11:29 PM

...

Haven't seen you here for a while, but good to see you posting again :).

television

11-01-2008, 11:35 PM

Does the Email make sense to you Westy

Westy

11-01-2008, 11:38 PM

OK its gone, not a lot but the MB way of re setting the remote

Thanks television. received, but as clear as mud to me I'm afraid.

Have emailed you back to see if you can desipher for me.

Cheers, much obliged again.

EDIT: Oops, decipher I mean!

television

11-01-2008, 11:51 PM

I am answering here for the benefit of other members.

1 ignore, as we do not have a spare key.

2 yes disconnect the car battery for 10 sec or so then re connect and operate remote a max of 100 times.

As for 3 and 4 I am not to sure, I am putting the paper up, see what others say

Westy

12-01-2008, 12:12 AM

Yes sorry, wasn't sure if I should reply via email or post my questions back on here.

I'll try point 2 in the morning and hopefully some kind soul will come up trumps with the 3rd and 4th point.

Fingers crossed.

Thanks again

Westy

12-01-2008, 11:10 AM

:bannana:

Houston, we have ignition!

:bannana:

She's back from the abiss, she lives, she runs, she locks and she unlocks!
:bannana:

Resolution:

Disconnect Negative battery terminal (while I re-checked all the fuses).
Reconnect battery and re-sync fob: Press button briefly twice whilst pointing at mirror, turn ignition to position 2, remove key point at mirror and press button once, BINGO!

Many many thanks to all you peeps for all of your invaluable help - you all :rock:

And a special thanks to Malcolm (television) who pointed me in the right direction!

:) :) :) :) :)

television

12-01-2008, 11:21 AM

The above post makes life worthwhile :D:D:D:D

Like anything digital once locked up, then remove the power, reconnect and a re set takes place, so dam simple when you think about it, I get annoyed with myself, as I do the above all day long.

The human head is a funny device, in the way that the normal can blank out