STAR cluster programming

[The Dent Guy]

I know this topic has been covered numerous times but I came up against a stumbling block when i approached my local indie in Gloucester.

He hadn't even heard of updating the menu with Star to get certain features, so he called in a few techy guys from the workshop to hear my request.

It was then that i learnt about the SCN - software calibration number. Even though they have a star machine, apparently it's updated with software from mercedes and if you want to enable features, then an online link with Germany is needed - which they didn't have. They told me its main dealer only.

Now i know from other peoples experiences on here that dealers are quite likely to say that they haven't heard of the mods or say it can't be done.

All i want is....

1 - Tyre Pressure Warning
2 - UK variant deactivation ie Outside temp in place of KPH



As far as i'm aware, deactivating KPH is illeagal - can anyone confirm this?

Also, can anyone recomend an indie near Glos to get these mods done?


Another point they made is if you have mods done then they can be cancelled out at your next service after being hooked up to Star. I was told that it re-loads all data including fuel mapping, so if you had a superchips remap, connecting to star at a later date would put the car back to standard.

Getting confused here...HELP!!!

[richard]

I'll cover your points in order.

Star has a password that changes monthly to enable 'factory' mode, which gives you the ability to fix things that the normal coding doesnt do. Once in factory mode you get extra menues - mostly in German and normally used with assistance from Germany. The more experienced technicians will have had to do this at some point before.

SCN coding does not apply to the W203 C class cluster, for the instrument cluster it came in with the ML and new A class and basically makes coding simple and mostly non-flexible for dealers, in that the SCN code is only downloadable from MB systems and you have to have a genuine star machine to get access to the MB systems. The SCN code is generated from the database that knows what options your car has at MB called FDOK. You only SCN code a control unit if something has gone wrong (i.e new cluster) or you add something (such as sat nav) and the MB database needs to be updated first.

You don't have to be a main dealer for SCN coding - you have to have a genuine star machine and be registered with the local country operation properly. Getting FDOK updated is a whole load more complicated.

The engine management systems are all SCN coded - have been for some time - i think that is about emissions compliance as-well as making same control units work for multiple models with same engine but with different power outputs

1 - Tyre Pressure Warning
This does not need SCN coding even on A/ML as it is in fact is not setup in the cluster.

2 - UK variant deactivation ie Outside temp in place of KPH
This needs the factory mode password and a knowledge of German. Also the addition of gallons remaining in the tank in the fuel computer needs the same.

> As far as i'm aware, deactivating KPH is illeagal - can anyone confirm this?
I do not beleive this is true - someone sometime ago called up the DVLA (or whoever is in charge) and got the answer that provided you can display KPH via a 'switch' (i.e a software menu) that is fine. If you code the car properly you can switch between digital speed or temp in that display, and you can switch between KM and MPH also. On older cars everything swops when you switch between KM and MPH (i.e the fuel computer switches to l/100km etc) , on the new ML you can chose how just that display is.

>Also, can anyone recomend an indie near Glos to get these mods done?
Alfie @ comand.co.uk (pm him on this forum) is in Woking - he charges a fixed fee to do as much coding as you want - things like auto-folding mirrors if you have folding mirrors, seat moving away when ignition turned off if you have memory seats, etc. comand.co.uk will not do TV in motion.

> Another point they made is if you have mods done then they can be
> cancelled out at your next service after being hooked up to Star.
This is another piece of dealer hearsay and rumour generating. The cluster changes will only get wiped out if the dealer specifically SCN codes the cluster - they do not do that as part of a service, its a slightly complicated procedure and they all work on the 'don't touch what is not broken' principle. Engine remaps can only go if they re-flash the engine management - again a long process that they don't like doing in case it breaks (as car is then non movable!) - they'll only do it if there is a 'required service measure' issued by MB (then they get paid for it by MB)
The only thing I do know that gets wiped is TV in motion on the old type COMAND - I dont know if it does on the new one as-well

Hope that helps,

Richard

[The Dent Guy]

Cheers Richard - i appreciate it.

I think it's safe to say that my local Indie can't do cluster progs with Star. Although they did say they would give it a go, I don't really want them learning how to do it with my car.

I know Alfie at Comand is very experienced with these mods....i just wish he was closer - Not far off a 200 mile round trip for me.

Anyone know of someone who can do these mods nearer Glos?

[R2D2]

I don't know many people in the country who can/will do coding. I only know of one in Kent plus Alfie and SteveNL in Holland!

Edit. Miro -but he is in Australia and its a bit of a drive!

[Gollom]

I don't know many people in the country who can/will do coding. I only know of one in Kent plus Alfie and SteveNL in Holland!

Edit. Miro -but he is in Australia and its a bit of a drive!

Lets invite Steve and machine to the midlands GTG in June? :D

[davidjpowell]

My other car - an Espace does not show KPH unless I switch it from MPH via a wierd and wonderfull combination.

David

[crockers]

PM Alfie - you never know he may meet you somewhere half way if he is doing other work.....its worth the journey....I still smile when my mirrors fold...(sad I know)..:D

[R2D2]

Lets invite Steve and machine to the midlands GTG in June? :D

Steve won't come out of Kent. Midlands is Alfie's patch!

[Gollom]

Steve won't come out of Kent. Midlands is Alfie's patch!


Sorry - meant SteveNL in the Netherlands! Unless of course *someone else* turns up with a STAR machine. Would certainly pay for fuel and beer money I'd guess! :D

[R2D2]

Maidstone Steve does coding but only locally.

[Wully]

I didn't think you required to connect to MB when trying the SCN coding when you had developer mode?

[richard]

I didn't think you required to connect to MB when trying the SCN coding when you had developer mode?

The SCN code itself is generated by MB, so to do SCN coding you need to connect to MB.
In factory mode you can program the individual settings - The SCN code is just a way of resetting all the settings to whatever the code means.

So, SCN coding and factory mode are different things. - Factory mode lets you fiddle with whatever has been SCN coded - until someone SCN codes it again and over-writes all your changes ! But as I said before, dealers wont just SCN code for the sake of it.

R

[Wully]

The SCN code itself is generated by MB, so to do SCN coding you need to connect to MB.
In factory mode you can program the individual settings - The SCN code is just a way of resetting all the settings to whatever the code means.

So, SCN coding and factory mode are different things. - Factory mode lets you fiddle with whatever has been SCN coded - until someone SCN codes it again and over-writes all your changes ! But as I said before, dealers wont just SCN code for the sake of it.

R

So basically with developer you can manually SCN code however this could change when say with a dealer?

I believe the new Carsoft will allow manual SCN coding.

[richard]

So basically with developer you can manually SCN code however this could change when say with a dealer?

I believe the new Carsoft will allow manual SCN coding.

Sort of. SCN coding is a specific process that gets a very long number from Mercedes Benz and puts it into the control unit thus setting the hundreds of different configurable items in the control unit. You used to be able to type the long code in (so you could get it on a fax from MB) but it got too long so its fully automated - I think you can probably still get the long code on a fax if needed - i'd call that manual SCN coding.
Factory mode actually gives you a menu with all the options on that you can change. Menu tends to be in German and of course there is no help or documentation as to what each opion does.

So you are manually coding, or SCN coding. And SCN coding is normally automated, but I guess can be manual.

R

[Cixi]

Hello.
Do you think my garage need this SNC (what does it mean?) code to enable all comand hidden features?

[richard]

Hello.
Do you think my garage need this SNC (what does it mean?) code to enable all comand hidden features?

No, the SCN code is generated from Mercedes for *your* vehicle and will specifically turn off all the hidden features and turn exactly what the factory would have put on it.

R

[Cixi]

No, the SCN code is generated from Mercedes for *your* vehicle and will specifically turn off all the hidden features and turn exactly what the factory would have put on it.

R

What does it mean SCN?
So you mean that instead of fix the things like i want it turn back all in the original state?
Let say it was unlocked the DVD in motion if I use that code it will lock again?

If so.. why should I use it?

[LastMinute]

There's some "official" information about SCN coding here (http://workshop.aftersales.daimlerchrysler.com/dcagportal/DCAGPortal).

[Cixi]

There's some "official" information about SCN coding here (http://workshop.aftersales.daimlerchrysler.com/dcagportal/DCAGPortal).

Thank You.
But SNC is the acronym of what?

[Diesel Benz]

Thank You.
But SNC is the acronym of what?

SCN should mean "Software Calibration Number".

I understand it came mandatory with emissions related equipment, car manufacturers were forced to protect these parts to make it impossible for the owners to make changes to the car and to keep the car passing emissions requirements.

There are many parts that are somehow related to emissions but obviously MB also is using it for other purposes. The argument for equipment that are not controlled by regulation is that this makes car service simpler and helps avoiding mistakes. Like for an instrument cluster swap, the service guy only needs to use SDS, it would request the correct SCN from MB through internet instead of the service guy trying to figure out a huge amount of settings to be as they should be set to this particular car.

[The Dent Guy]

Quick update on cluster programming from my local indie.

Whilst having my brakes done, they did say they would hook it up to STAR and have a look to see if they could change KM to Outside Temp.

I decided it would be ok for them to just "look" even though they had never heard of doing the change.....and it was free because they used the free time left over from doing the brakes.

15 mins later....Unsurprisingly they didn't see how it could be done.....BUT....i did notice the following when it was handed back to me.

All the custom settings i had made to the cluster and heating system had been returned to what i presume is factory default.

Now im worried that if i pay for Alfie to do the coding, once the car goes back to my indie for a 'B' service, will the coding be erased??

I know you say in theory they shouldn't download the original setting to the car (they won't touch what isn't broken), but in that case why have all my settings returned to default after just "having a look"?

[Alfie]

Quick update on cluster programming from my local indie.

Whilst having my brakes done, they did say they would hook it up to STAR and have a look to see if they could change KM to Outside Temp.

I decided it would be ok for them to just "look" even though they had never heard of doing the change.....and it was free because they used the free time left over from doing the brakes.

15 mins later....Unsurprisingly they didn't see how it could be done.....BUT....i did notice the following when it was handed back to me.

All the custom settings i had made to the cluster and heating system had been returned to what i presume is factory default.

Now im worried that if i pay for Alfie to do the coding, once the car goes back to my indie for a 'B' service, will the coding be erased??

I know you say in theory they shouldn't download the original setting to the car (they won't touch what isn't broken), but in that case why have all my settings returned to default after just "having a look"?

I suspect that perhaps the dealer got into a mess with it, not knowing what he/she was doing and simply put it back as it was or reset it.

[richard]

I know you say in theory they shouldn't download the original setting to the car (they won't touch what isn't broken), but in that case why have all my settings returned to default after just "having a look"?

They didnt just have a look, they tried to re-code the cluster from 'UK' to 'Rest of World' hoping that would turn off UK mode (which it doesnt) - that procedure resets the user selectable options to default.

To switch off UK mode requires the monthly password to put Star into 'factory mode' and an understanding of what the German factory mode options actually do.



Richard

[The Dent Guy]

Thanks guys.....

One would imagine that these indies know it inside out - truth is, the collective knowledge from the people from MBClub is really where its at!!

Thanks again

[richard]

Thanks guys.....

One would imagine that these indies know it inside out - truth is, the collective knowledge from the people from MBClub is really where its at!!

Thanks again

Just for completeness sake, doing that procedure will wipe out things like 'fuel remaining in tank in gallons' tweak on some clusters. It turn on/off the UK mode stuff on any car i've seen. It wont hurt optional extras like tyre pressure loss warner, corner lights, activation of Navigation screen, iPod controls etc - although if the dealer goes through the much more complicated 'SCN' coding procedure that can remove most of that stuff also.

Richard

[mr. shr]

When I had my cluster changed under the recall I lost the "tank remaining in gallons" feature.
I also gained a few extra items like, digital speed in mph. I can also set additional convenience items like fold in mirrors on locking (although it doesn't actually do anything.)

So if I want the "gallons left in tank" item back again, should I be demanding this from them? I liked that feature.

[richard]

When I had my cluster changed under the recall I lost the "tank remaining in gallons" feature.
I also gained a few extra items like, digital speed in mph. I can also set additional convenience items like fold in mirrors on locking (although it doesn't actually do anything.)

So if I want the "gallons left in tank" item back again, should I be demanding this from them? I liked that feature.

They can't do that , you need a modding specialist such as Alfie - and they got the options list wrong when installing the new cluster. When doing a new cluster, there are 3 sort of methods

a) If car is SCN coded cluster, put in new cluster and SCN code.
b) If not SCN and if old cluster works, copy data to new cluster
c) If not SCN and if old cluster dead, do initialisaion procedure and manually specifiy the options. Some people do (c) instead of (b) in case it was something on the old coding causing the fault.

I suspect they did (c) on yours, and set it as 'Rest of World' so you didnt lose the 'not UK' setting, but they also said yes to some other options. You get the digital speed in MPH when the cluster is in 'rest of world' mode and the outside temp is selected to be shown- I've presumed that hapenned on all clusters !!

R

[mr. shr]

They can't do that , you need a modding specialist such as Alfie - and they got the options list wrong when installing the new cluster. When doing a new cluster, there are 3 sort of methods

a) If car is SCN coded cluster, put in new cluster and SCN code.
b) If not SCN and if old cluster works, copy data to new cluster
c) If not SCN and if old cluster dead, do initialisaion procedure and manually specifiy the options. Some people do (c) instead of (b) in case it was something on the old coding causing the fault.

I suspect they did (c) on yours, and set it as 'Rest of World' so you didnt lose the 'not UK' setting, but they also said yes to some other options. You get the digital speed in MPH when the cluster is in 'rest of world' mode and the outside temp is selected to be shown- I've presumed that hapenned on all clusters !!

R

So to get the tank content back does not require going back to a dealer with SCN access?
Therefore, my indy might be able to do it?

BTW the temp display on the W220 has a designated lcd display therefore the temp is displayed regardless of other settings.

[richard]

So to get the tank content back does not require going back to a dealer with SCN access?
Therefore, my indy might be able to do it?

BTW the temp display on the W220 has a designated lcd display therefore the temp is displayed regardless of other settings.

Most indies dont do modding - you need someone that is aufait with computers and a bit of German !!

Richard

[merc man]

richard is right
i have had my coded for auto dimming,rain sensing wipers,memoery seats and mirrors, mph/km display,outside temp display, fuel remaing, fuel in tank and xenon retrofit.

now the car was set for japan-3 dont know how or why! but it was always slow and consumed petrol and this caused the running fault for over a year as the car was looking for an air pump which does not exist on my car, after 2 dealer visits i poped it down to BlackC55 who found the adapation fault, but he could not reset it back to the euro- 3/4 setting, i went to the dealer who did some coding and some SCN coding and returned the car back to factroy spec, but none of my mods were touched and the car was retured as i gave it to them but in euro mode and no fault codes, and all adaptations re-set ect and now the car is better than ever!

[A-AvantGarde]

richard is right
i have had my coded for auto dimming,rain sensing wipers,memoery seats and mirrors, mph/km display,outside temp display, fuel remaing, fuel in tank and xenon retrofit.


merc man, what year is your C Class to get mph/km display,outside temp display, fuel remaing, fuel in tank?

[merc man]

merc man, what year is your C Class to get mph/km display,outside temp display, fuel remaing, fuel in tank?

My c-class is a 2001, all the features were easily activated and are really usefull, but i cant get the auto folding of mirros on lock. but im sure there will be some way around this! i live in hope.

[A-AvantGarde]

My c-class is a 2001, all the features were easily activated and are really usefull, but i cant get the auto folding of mirros on lock. but im sure there will be some way around this! i live in hope.

Cool, do you need anything else changed other than Star coding to add these, I'd like mainly like tank volume, outside temp display & fuel remaing

[merc man]

Nope! just a star and someone with the knowledge on how to add them to your cluster/front sam unit. they were the cheapest modification i have ever done in my car!

[Alfie]

merc man, what year is your C Class to get mph/km display,outside temp display, fuel remaing, fuel in tank?

You are not far away from us at all ;)

[A-AvantGarde]

You are not far away from us at all ;)

True, I'll be in touch :D

[merc man]

hi there alfie, has there been any developments in respect to auto folding on lock? or do i still need to change out some parts?

[mr. shr]

hi there alfie, has there been any developments in respect to auto folding on lock? or do i still need to change out some parts?

I'd like some opinions on this too.

When I had my cluster changed, I now am able to select auto fold on closing. But the mirrors wont actually fold.

Forum members have suggested that I need new door controllers that support auto fold.

However, last time I spoke to my indy, he said that it *MIGHT* be possible to tell my existing door controllers to auto fold on locking. (Will hook me up to Star next time I'm passing by and see if it's possible.)

I'm sure I read on WIS something about if you have one touch fold in/out buttons, you can have auto fold on locking.
But on my W220, you have to press and hold the fold button in order to move the mirrors and based on that I don't think I will be able to have the auto fold on locking feature.

Do you have one touch fold or do you have to push and hold?

(Hey, that rhymes!! :D )

[Alfie]

hi there alfie, has there been any developments in respect to auto folding on lock? or do i still need to change out some parts?

The whole issue of auto folding is very much dependant on the revision of the door controllers. For instance we have seen a 2005 car which we fitted folding mirrors to. the door controllers were 2002 so we had to change those too as they would not support folding.

It does seem to ring true that if you press the button once and release your finger from the button, the mirrors then fold in you can have auto fold. If you have to press and hold whilst they fold, then its unlikely.

[merc man]

hi there alfie
i read the post and poped out to try it, the mirros fold when i press and release the buton, no need for me to hold the button, mines a w203 but i have upgraded most parts, the door controllers are from a newer car not sure what year, but they have memory as i have installed memory seats ect, any chance of auto fold on lock?

i forgot to metion i think the cluster is enabled.. but what would the screen option look like if was programmed?

[richard]

hi there alfie
i read the post and poped out to try it, the mirros fold when i press and release the buton, no need for me to hold the button, mines a w203 but i have upgraded most parts, the door controllers are from a newer car not sure what year, but they have memory as i have installed memory seats ect, any chance of auto fold on lock?

i forgot to metion i think the cluster is enabled.. but what would the screen option look like if was programmed?

You need a cluster that supports this, (which I think means around the mid 04 facelift, or just before) and Front SAM that understands this, as-well as the door controllers.

If your car has memory mirrors OR folding mirrors, then it has door controllers that understand both. If it has neither, it will almost certianly need new door controlllers if you want to add memory or folding, unless MB were feeling very generous and installed the controllers with the memory/folding connectors in your car (very unlikely). Obviously this is from experience, and I;m sure there are cars out there to prove me wrong.

Cheers

Richard

[merc man]

hi there richard

we did try this but the star was playing up on the day, and we did not manage to get it all done, we did most of the programming at an earlier visit. but i remember you mentioning something about the new cluster.

[richard]

I think the option wasn't in your cluster, as you have one of the older ones (yellow display). But also, your front SAM will be too old-aswell.

The SAM, I suspect, is the issue Mr Shr has as-well

Richard

[merc man]

must aquire a cluster, regarding the front sam its it the silver part that looks like the ecu? or the part that all the fuses/relays sit on? if its the parts where the fuses sit on i have a new one from a 2005/6 model but not installed it yet.

[richard]

must aquire a cluster, regarding the front sam its it the silver part that looks like the ecu? ot the part that all the fuses/relays sit on? if its the parts where the fuses sit on i have a new one from a 2005/6 model but not installed it yet.

Its the part with the fuses/relays and a control module all together (1 unit).

The other thing often in that area where the SAM is located is the engine controller. I guess that whole area is the seperation between engine bay electronics, body and interior.

Interested to know what happens with your facelift SAM in an older one. I'm sure it will work (sunman has done it in US). In fact. after youve done the cluster and SAM you may get away with putting more facelift stuff in !! (comand-aps ?)

Cheers

R

[merc man]

ok will give it a try when the waether gets better, as its too cold to walk and wait for a bus!

if i have to change the ecu then its a mod that i will not really entertain as i know its really involved,
having a good look at the new fuseboard there seems to be little or no diffrence, might be wrong but i think its more to do with the cluster ill take some pics of the options in the cluster and of the area where the sam, i think sits and you can point out what needs changing. and hopefully ill be on the way to having auto folding

[richard]

ok will give it a try when the waether gets better, as its too cold to walk and wait for a bus!

if i have to change the ecu then its a mod that i will not really entertain as i know its really involved,
having a good look at the new fuseboard there seems to be little or no diffrence, might be wrong but i think its more to do with the cluster ill take some pics of the options in the cluster and of the area where the sam, i think sits and you can point out what needs changing. and hopefully ill be on the way to having auto folding

You just unplug all the connectors from the top and bottom of the SAM, pull it out (maybee screws!) and plug connectors into the new one. I'm pretty sure all the connectors are different shapes (they are on the one I have infront of me), so you can't go wrong. The SAM's ecu is part of the SAM - i.e not removable/seperate.
You wont have to change the engine ecu, that is a specialist job.
In theory the SAM needs coding to be told what you have, so somethings maybee odd until that is done as car may think it has stuff it doesnt and vice versa. May even be able to get cornering lights etc after you've done that !

Richard