Outside Temp v. KPH

[jahewitt]

My new ML shows the KPH on the computer display (as the speedo has MPH only)

On european models this display can be set to either always show the KPH or show the outside temp. The the UK it is set as default to show KPH (otherwise you dont know the KPH) and this cannot be changed through the user menus.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get the dealer to change this to give the option to always show the temp ? or does anyone know how to change it without going to the dealer ?

Any ideas very welcome !

[andy_cyp]

On my 203 cluster display it used to show kph also, but a brief visit to my local dealer sorted it out for me so it now reads mph and it constantly shows the outside display.

No charge from the either.

Andy

[Rory]

On my 203 cluster display it used to show kph also, but a brief visit to my local dealer sorted it out for me so it now reads mph and it constantly shows the outside display.

It drives me bonkers too, and I would change it if I could, but I never imagined the dealer would do it. I'm amazed they did - the reason it's fixed from the factory is that (goodness knows why) it's a legal requirement in the UK that the speed is displayed in kph.

[richard]

Ive found that if the dealer recodes the cluster from "UK" to 'rest of world' - it seems to work on some clusters, or maybee it was when the cluster was below 250km (the limit that EU clusters can have their mileage reset on).

Apparently STAR can be booted in some special mode, with a password, that gives access to extra functionality - which allows lots of extra tweaks like that - the passwords change with each version, but a friendly tech at a dealer had shown me once when he had been given the password for that month from MB as something special needed re-coding on someones car. I suspect there are people out there with star machines with that feature permanently enabled

In "rest of world mode" than that status line can be switched between MPH and temperature. if you want KPH there, you have to tell the cluster to do KPH, then all the trip computer stuff switches to KPH

On my SL (which was changed when brand new), when you select KPH, it switches from displaying 0-200MPH to displaying 0-200KPH (and the little mph light goes off and kmh comes on) - I, for some reason, have the menu to switch between speed and temperature, but it doesnt do anything, and in fact I have the temp display in the wrong side of the cluster (according to the latest manual)

Cheers

Richard

[niva441]

Took the car to the dealer on Friday who are trying very hard to make me satisfied with my new car, so I give them a good report back to MB. Although they tried several different settings the closest they got was to have the displays enabled, but the speedo apparently worked in km/h. According to the Technician the speedos work differently when working in km/h to mph, so I'm back to the standard settings.

I think a call to MB is next as, in addition to wanting a permanent temperature reading, I find it dangerous trying to read the km/h display.

What is the magic ingredient the dealer needs to get this sorted?

Thanks

Todd

[andy_k]

I'm not sure that MB will be too willing to help as the kph display is a legal requirement Quote from the Road Vehicles (Construction And Use) Regulations 1986 rule book :)

A speedometer must be fitted in such a position that the driver can see speed of vehicle. If vehicle first used on or after 1.4.84, must be capable of indicating speed in mph and kph Must be fitted to all vehicles except:

i. max. speed not exceeding 25mph
ii. unlawful to drive at more than 25mph
iii. agricultural vehicle not driven at more than 20mph
iv. motor cycle first used before 1.4.84 not exceeding 100cc
v. invalid carriage first used before 1.4.84
vi. works truck first used before 1.4.84
vii. vehicle first used before 1.10.37


so to change it would be breaking the law.

As for the display being dangerous why? every speedo has them and nobody else seems to find it a problem and your dealer could argue that if you are that easily distracted a temperature display would be equally risky :)

If it's purely for cosmetics then fair enough - you may find an independent happy to do it but you may need to get it swapped back for your MoT

Andy

[niva441]

I find the lower display dangerous as I'm looking away from the road too long when reading it. The temperature display is shorter so I'd find it easier to read as there is less to focus on and it would require less frequent attention.

Of course if the option was opened up to change the display the speed reading would be higher in the display and larger, so easier to read. Plus as a bonus I wouldn't look down so far from the road.

[richard]

I'm not sure that MB will be too willing to help as the kph display is a legal requirement Quote from the Road Vehicles (Construction And Use) Regulations 1986 rule book :)

[I]A speedometer must be fitted in such a position that the driver can see speed of vehicle. If vehicle first used on or after 1.4.84, must be capable of indicating speed in mph and kph Must be fitted to all vehicles except:


Hold on, my speedo is capable of showing speed in mph and kmh - just not at the same time ..

I've found out more about this - you need to have UK mode turned off by someone with a Star diagnosis machine and the 'developer' mode temporary password for the given release of the DAS software (i.e the current month) - then they can put developer mode on, and turn off UK mode ..

Richard

[richard]

As for the display being dangerous why? every speedo has them and nobody else seems to find it a problem and your dealer could argue that if you are that easily distracted a temperature display would be equally risky :)


Because its a "moving" display, i.e the km/h display is constantly changing. The brain notices things that are changing (which is why indicators flash for instance, and it has been shown that flashing brake lights (at a certain frequency) are more effective than normal ones).

Most speedos dont have the moving digital display, its just extra paintwork on the main clock. No idea why MB couldnt just paint the km/h values on the main speedo and allow us to show outside temp instead.

In the winter outside temp. is very important for guessing when the roads will be black icey ..

R

[niva441]

Because its a "moving" display, i.e the km/h display is constantly changing. The brain notices things that are changing (which is why indicators flash for instance, and it has been shown that flashing brake lights (at a certain frequency) are more effective than normal ones).

Most speedos dont have the moving digital display, its just extra paintwork on the main clock. No idea why MB couldnt just paint the km/h values on the main speedo and allow us to show outside temp instead.

In the winter outside temp. is very important for guessing when the roads will be black icey ..

R

Thanks for the extra info Richard on Star diagnositcs, I'll have to discuss this with my dealer, who do seem to be going to remarkable efforts to ensure I'm happy with the car (jhope it lasts).

The lack of extra marking is annoying, one of those things you don't miss until it's gone. What's more annoying is that they're probably missing because some ponce in styling prefered the way it looked - ignoring it's core functionality.

The lack of permanent temperature display and no ice warning was a surprise first morning I drove the new car to work. Fortunately the coldness of the leather seats gave me a clue and I was watching the temperature as it dropped to 0.0 . This was only a fortnight ago! In this respect the car has gone backwards from my W202.

[richard]

marking is annoying, one of those things you don't miss until it's gone. What's more annoying is that they're probably missing because some ponce in styling prefered the way it looked - ignoring it's core functionality.


On my new A class, the speedo is marked a 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160. I dont mind this, but my wife ends up finding this difficult and would have preferred 10, 30, 50, 70, 90 ... - given UK speed limits where we drive tends to be 30/50 or 70, with 60 on country lanes, it would more sensible to have had that .. Net result is she wants the digital display (the small one in the middle) to show MPH all the time.

R

[niva441]

Yes that's next on my list although I'll be happy to get the digital displays sorted.

I suppose the neatest solution would be to stick another set of markings on the speedo with the more relevant UK limits and kph included (although how many kph marking would be required by law?). Just like the Japanese grey imports have done.

Problem is that probably means stripping the dash down and from memories of Land Rover dealers that's something best avoided.

[R2D2]

Your cluster needs modified to allow "Status Line". That then lets you choose between temp, kmp, or mph and lets you put it back for an MOT. I had it done on mine and I prefer to have static temp rather than the speedo. If I want the speedo I select the whole screen one after the total mileage page. Steve did mine

[niva441]

Thanks for all the replys guys.

It's good to know it is possible. I just need to find a dealer who knows it's possible. Hopefully, after further discussions based on this thread, my supplying dealer will be able to do it, otherwise I'll have to find a dealer on my travels who can instead.

Todd

[caveman]

Can I also put in a plea for an easy way to see the "Range" in miles on the current fuel load. At the moment it requires burying several layers down in the "Trip computer" menu...At the very least it would be nice to fix it as the "top" reading when you cycle round the display. Also, does anyone else get annoyed by the "Hold for 3 seconds to reset" instruction that you normally get...My wife thought this was an order and did what she was told much to my annoyance....It is all so badly thought compared to my previous Audi....

[richard]

annoyed by the "Hold for 3 seconds to reset" instruction that you normally get...My wife thought this was an order and did what she was told much to my annoyance....It is all so badly thought compared to my previous Audi....


I have a friend with an Audi, who when it snowed last said "this car is very unstable in snow even though I turned the ESP on by pressing the button ...."


Richard

[sym]

The lack of permanent temperature display and no ice warning was a surprise first morning I drove the new car to work. Fortunately the coldness of the leather seats gave me a clue and I was watching the temperature as it dropped to 0.0 . This was only a fortnight ago! In this respect the car has gone backwards from my W202.

Agreed - serious oversight !

S.

[MikeL]

I asked the Dept of transport about having a digital mph reading, as long as I can switch back to kph when required, this was the reply:

UK Speedometers: From Dept of Transport

The Department cannot interpret the law, that is a matter for the courts. However, our view is as follows:

Reg. 35 of the Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986 as amended states that a vehicle first used on or after 1 April 1984 shall be fitted with a speedometer capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and Kilometres per hour, either simultaneously or, by the operation of a switch, separately. The regulations do not stipulate what type of speedometer is to be used, so both analogue and digital are acceptable.

Currently your vehicle meets one of the options allowed under the Regulations by means of having two speedometers, one in mph and the other in kph, thus displaying the different speeds simultaneously.

Since you plan to be able to switch freely between mph and kph on the digital display, the digital speedometer, once modified, will on its own meet the other option permitted under the Regulations, ie to display mph and kph separately, by operation of switching.

So the answer to your question is that, yes, if the digital reading is changed to show mph but can be switched between mph and kph, this will be within the requirements.


However when I tried to have it done MB decided that software changes had made it impossible!

If Porsche can do it I don't see why Mercedes can't.

Mike

[niva441]

Thanks for clarifying the legality. I'm amazed that a government department can come out with such a crystal clear statement.

[Rory]

Begs the question why MB don't allow us to change it ourselves - I think the fixed KPH thing is specific only to the UK.

I'd love to know *why* we have to have KPH anyway - I bet German cars don't have to show MPH.

[MikeL]

Begs the question why MB don't allow us to change it ourselves - I think the fixed KPH thing is specific only to the UK.

I'd love to know *why* we have to have KPH anyway - I bet German cars don't have to show MPH.

This was DCs response (Milton Keynes) after showing them the DOT response stating it was OK to do:

regarding vehicle legislation the car is required to be shipped in the state it is, however it is perfectly legal for the customer to request the change, two points should be noted.

1) The change cannot be made until the vehicle has been registered – legal reasons.

2) The dealership may need to charge a nominal fee, i.e. 1 pence, so as to generate a record that the customer requested the change – and to prove when the change took place.


It seems they are at odds with the DOT.

Mike

[richard]

This was DCs response (Milton Keynes) after showing them the DOT response stating it was OK to do:

regarding vehicle legislation the car is required to be shipped in the state it is, however it is perfectly legal for the customer to request the change, two points should be noted.

1) The change cannot be made until the vehicle has been registered – legal reasons.

2) The dealership may need to charge a nominal fee, i.e. 1 pence, so as to generate a record that the customer requested the change – and to prove when the change took place.


It seems they are at odds with the DOT.

Mike

I suspect that "the vehicle is required to be shipped in the state it is" because that is how it passed its type approval with the UK authority (also would tally with the fact the change can't be made pre initial registration) - rather than anything to do with the change per se.

The fact that the dealers can not change this easily has been overlooked by MB UK :-)

R

[scumbag]

i had mine looked at, at a GTG in Kent with the man with the box. he wasn't able to adjust the screen on mine as it didnt give him the options for it. so maybes dealer wont have the software to do it either, nowadays.

his box was aslo unable to unlock the region code on the dvd, altho the hidden menu does give you that option.

if we change to KPH on the rads instead of MPH we wont have the problem. Australia did it. works a treat i think.

[DieselE]

if we change to KPH on the rads instead of MPH we wont have the problem. Australia did it. works a treat i think.


Just as long as we don't have to change to measuring fuel consumption in litres/100km :eek:

[prprandall51]

Some time ago, motorbikes mostly moved over to digital speedos, reserving the cluster space for a nice big rev counter. On all of the bikes I have ridden that do have digital speedos, they only show the mph figure, not the kmh figure. To obtain kmh you have to programme the cluster.

This backs up the DoT position quoted earlier in the thread. MB are unquestionably mis-interpreting the legislation if they think that both figures must be displayed simultaneously.

The Porsche Boxter also has an mph-only speedo - I don't know if that displays kmh all the time or not. Anyone with one got the answer?


Philip

[Rory]

2) The dealership may need to charge a nominal fee, i.e. 1 pence, so as to generate a record that the customer requested the change – and to prove when the change took place.


It might be worth getting it done just to see a MB dealer generate a bill for 1p - like I believe that!

[niva441]

Plus service charge for generating the bill

[MikeL]

Topping up the washer fluid!

[niva441]

Took the car into the dealer for the second time today. Despite the help from the guys on the forum, they were still unable to get it sorted. Their best guess ended up with digital speedo in the main screen displaying mph and the analogue working in kph. Apparently they were unable to get the speedo to work in mph after the UK mode was turned off.

Can anyone recommend someone to set the dash up, I'm willing to travel to get it sorted.

Thanks

Todd

[jdrrco]

I think it would be so handy to be able to switch properly between mph & km/h. If I take my car to France, the digital speedo can display km/h, but as this then precludes the cluster display being used for Comand directions (which are even more useful abroad than here - reminding you which way to go round roundabouts etc!), I end up having to peer at the little km/h display at the bottom of the screen and have all my directions given to me in miles, when the signposts etc are in km.

If the manual switchover which is available as standard also triggered the analogue/dial speedo to alter to km/h, (so that the needle pointing at 50 then meant 50kmh, rather than 50mph) it would be so much more useful all round.