TMC Update [Archive] - MBClub Forums

glojo

23-10-2004, 10:16 AM

Finally got the response from Mercedes-Benz UK (It took a while for me to type ;) )

There are four companies involved in making TMC available to UK Mercedes-Benz customers: DaimlerChrysler AG (DCAG), DaimlerChrysler UK Ltd (DCUK), ITIS (the service provider) and Teleatlas (who manufacture the navigation discs). Currently we are in discussions with IT IS regarding the cost of the service, which at its present rate would not be economically viable for our customers. Once we have negotiated a more appropriate rate, DCAG, as the manufacturer, will need to approve the application from DCUK. When this has been approved we will ask Teleatlas to produce a disc that is compatible with the systems in our vehicles. Our Marketing Department has confirmed that we are hoping this process will be completed within the next twelve months, however due to the number of parties involved we are unable to be more specific.

I am sorry that I am unable to provide a more positive response on this occasion but recommend that you keep in close contact with your local authorised retailer who will be informed as soon as we have more specific information on the availability of TMC in the UK.

Yours sincerely,
Etc etc.

Now if they intend to charge for this update I for one will not be a happy bunny. There are ways to make this a 'cheap' purchase but this would be better discussed 'offline' :rolleyes:

I wrote to Mercedes-Benz UK as the owner of a 211 (new E-class) It is quite likely though that the DVD upgrade would apply to most new Mercedes-Benz fitted with DVD COMAND (fingers crossed)

Regards to you all,
John

saorbust

23-10-2004, 12:23 PM

glojo

23-10-2004, 12:49 PM

Have to say thats pure crap.

Teleatlas do NOT make the DVD navigation CD - that license belongs to someone else. You can already get TMC on the CD Version of the COMAND system - that disc is provided by Teleatlas.

Someone at MB has sold you a dummy.

I appreciate your input, But I certainly cannot (will NOT) write back to anyone and say what they have said is """crap"""

Could you possibly give me something constructive to put in my reply? (This is meant as a polite request, I would sincerely appreciate any help, or guidance you can offer, but it must be factual)

Is it possible that Teleatlas are either a licensee or licence holder of the software?

PLEASE do not get confused with older systems. I am ONLY talking about DVD COMAND systems. (211 E-class in particular and I believe S class 220 and Maybach?? don't know about the new C-class) I have made that very clear right from the outset.

It would be 'interesting' if someone has given me false information on such a specialist subject and I will certainly not let it rest. :mad:

Quick edit: Am I right in saying that Teleatlas actually write the software for the CD equipped COMAND systems and that Navtech write the DVD version?

If so is it possible that they are indeed linked by some sort of licence agreement? Thanks again for any advice
Regards,
John

saorbust

23-10-2004, 01:37 PM

Hi John,

Simply put...

DVD = COMAND APS (W211 E Class amongst others) = NavTech are the DVD provider.
(Also get Europe on one DVD, cost about £383 - I just upgraded my E Class)

CD = COMAND 2.0 (W209 CLK for example) = Teleatlas.
(One country per disc for detailed road network, cost about £149 with TMC)

The later, ie, the CD - has TMC already and has done for about 1.5 years now. I've had it in my CLK since launch, and have also written a number of articles on it.

So - the reason why I tell you that the info from MB is crap, is on the basis that they mention Teleatlas as the disc provider / maker (and they also say 'CD'). I think they've got the above confused, and aren't giving you the right info. Which lets face it is worrying. I've found this a lot - and in fact I get better info from MB Germany direct.

Clarky.

glojo

23-10-2004, 01:47 PM

Hi John,
So - the reason why I tell you that the info from MB is crap, is on the basis that they mention Teleatlas as the disc provider / maker (and they also say 'CD'). I think they've got the above confused, and aren't giving you the right info. Which lets face it is worrying. I've found this a lot - and in fact I get better info from MB Germany direct.
Clarky.

Thanks very much for the clarification ;) I definitely agree about going to MB Germany direct.

However when I get information from a 'Resolution Specialist' :rolleyes: That 'specialist' had better give me the correct 'specialist' information. :mad:

Luckily I have nothing better to do, so this issue will not rest.

Thanks again,
John

glojo

25-10-2004, 06:20 PM

Have to say thats pure crap.

Teleatlas do NOT make the DVD navigation CD - that license belongs to someone else. You can already get TMC on the CD Version of the COMAND system - that disc is provided by Teleatlas.

Someone at MB has sold you a dummy.

Letter posted and I now await a reply. :mad: Thanks for pointing out their 'accidental' mistake.

Regards,
John

saorbust

25-10-2004, 08:11 PM

Good luck - let us know the outcome ! I'll post any info I have, when I can...

glojo

25-10-2004, 08:58 PM

Good luck - let us know the outcome ! I'll post any info I have, when I can...

I certainly will and thanks again for putting me right. Although I think they will just correct the mistake.

regards,
John

Shude

27-10-2004, 11:39 PM

This should have been posted in the electronics section, moving...

VBD

28-10-2004, 04:32 AM

saorbust

28-10-2004, 01:06 PM

Eh ?! Whats an EPC ?

Teleatlas provided the TMC disc for my CLK with the CD based COMAND system (easy to know - the disc loads into the unit not into a player in the boot). URL is:http://www.navshop.com/directsales/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_311_393_455_105&products_id=720 for a TMC enabled copy.

The latest DVD disc - V4.0 does NOT have TMC.

sym

28-10-2004, 02:14 PM

EPC = Electronic Parts Catalogue, I believe.

S.

glojo

28-10-2004, 02:15 PM

This should have been posted in the electronics section, moving...

Hi Shude very sorry about that, it all gets pretty confusing, my mistake.

Regards,
John

tvcam

07-11-2004, 01:17 PM

I have just stumbled on to this site only to find others with the same problem as myself.

This is what I know

TeleAtlas produce their own UK CD navigation discs for MB Comand systems that take the single country CD disc (not DVD).

Since Jan 2004 the TeleAtlas own brand disc contains the TMC coding, and they have there own licensing agreement with ITIS Holdings/Trafficmaster.. and Dynamic route guidance works..

MB do not have TMC coding on their disc that TeleAtlas produce, so it does not work. Even though the Comand instruction book for the last 3 years says it should...!!! MB have no contract with ITIS for any of their Comand navigation system, neither the CD or DVD type.

MB has no planned role out date for TMC for either the CD or DVD based systems even though their instruction books say TMC will operate in countries where TMC is available.

In the UK TMC data is transmitted over the Classic FM radio network. Comand CD navigation units have to be tuned to Classic FM, although you can use the multi CD unit to play music CDs while the radio tuner sucks out the TMC date from Classic FM it requires.

Comand DVD navigation unit (uses NAVTEQ discs) has dual tuners, one passive just for TMC data reception, so you can listen to radio station other than Classic FM..!! But because MB do not have an ITIS account, and NAVTEQ dont produce their own version of the DVD disc (like TeleAtlas do with the CD nav units), Dynamic Route Guidance/TMC just aint available in any form.

But even worse, the new DVD based navigation system that has just been fitted to the new 2005 C Class model (out since July 2004) and the new CLK has a fault with the audio commands at roundabouts. Its all being kept very quiet at the moment. They are hoping to solve the problem before too many customers find out.

This is currently a known MB fault with no fix. NAVTEQ and Harmon/Becker are desperately working to fix this fault, but I wont bore you with specific details.

Just to rub salt into an open wound, my opinion is the Harmon Kardon audio upgrade is no where near as good as the Digital Bose it replaced. I know, I have both on my drive now and in new Mercedes.

Sorry to go on, I have lots more info but my wife says I dont know when to stop... but no one has listened to me yet.. I hope this helps somone..

Steve

glojo

07-11-2004, 02:00 PM

Sorry to go on... No one has listened to me yet.. I hope this helps somone..

Hi Steve,
Thank you very much for your informative post.

I have tried writing to Mercedes-Benz UK, but really I need the address of the department that specializes in the E-class DVD COMAND system.

The latest reply I have is as follows:

Please accept my sincere apologies for the incorrect information provided in my letter dated 22nd October. You are correct, Teleatlas are not the manufacturer of the navigation disc for the E-class, they only currently supply discs for our M-Class and Viano systems. The information I had access to had not been updated correctly nad again I apologise for any discourtesy I have caused you.

****************************************

I do not appreciate being given incorrect information by so called 'experts', but this person has apologised and that is the end of the matter.

It is an interesting issue which I would love to have a proper answer to. Europe has TMC, my country I am told is part of Europe (didn't get my vote) my car has a TMC button, BMW has TMC. I want TMC. However it is not the end of the world not having it, and I will not be loosing sleep over the issue, but if anyone can suggest who I can write to, I will carry on my quest.

Regards to you all,
John

tvcam

07-11-2004, 02:11 PM

John

I have loads of information about this.. I am right in the middle of a claim with MB for my DVD nav system.

TMC is available in many European countries Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxenbourg, Sweeden.. and it is available in the UK.

TMC became available in the UK in 1998/9. The Highways agency owned it and gave the role out of it to the AA or RAC free for 2 years. But unlike every other European country the UK wanted to charge for what is a free service in all other countries.

That caused problems. The AA or RAC gave up and it to went to Trafficmaster/ITIS, probably because they had a system and charging structure for a simular product.

Eventually car manufacturers like Toyota, Landrover, Jaguar, BMW wanted it so much they paid for licensing agreements, so that set the ground rules.

Daimler Chrysler did nothing, other than to write in the sales and Comand instruction books TMC and Active Route Guidance worked.. which it did outside of the UK. Perhaps they just hoped it would become free in the UK like the rest of Europe.. but it never..

So Active Route Guidance (ie avoiding traffic jams) does not work on any DVD NAVTEQ based Mercedes Comand system.

The only way you can get Active Route Guidance is on the old CD Comand system using TeleAtlas own brand disc.. not the Mercedes TeleAtlas disc.

This is because TeleAtlas have their own licence with ITIS/Trafficmaster and can put TMC coding on their own disc and allow the buyer to access the TMC data as one of their customers.

Somewhere in Daimler Chrysler or MB UK is a Telematic Product Manager who is responsible for this mess, and I am homming in on him or her.

If we are lucky, it could be a German Product Manager in Germany, then we stand a chance of getting this mess sorted.

But if its a pale faced Brit based in Milton Keynes or London then God save us all..

So to answer John's point, when TMC coding is added to all the MB navigation discs FOR THE UK areas, and when either MB UK or Daimler Chrysler UK get a licence agreement with ITIS.. then and only then will Dynamic/Active Route Guidance in the UK work.

But until then Mercedes UK just keeps saying it will work in the instruction books, MB Customer Service on 00800 17777777 don't even understand the question let alone ring you back with an answer...

Steve

saorbust

26-11-2004, 10:44 AM

I had a letter yesterday from MB UK (signed by the CEO no less) which informed me they would be enabling it sometime towards the end of 2005, pending contract confirmations etc etc.

Will update you if I hear something else via my other contacts.

Clrky.

calum

27-11-2004, 05:42 PM

glojo

27-11-2004, 06:00 PM

Is there no hope that Navteq will produce their own-brand version of the Europe DVD with TMC enabled, like TeleAtlas do for the UK CD?

Do we know whether there is *any* Navteq DVD, e.g. for another car manufuactuer, that has TMC? A quick Google suggests that they might do...

Finally, any comments on why MB switched from TeleAtlas to Navteq?

Hi Calum,
Is there any difference between Navteq and Navtech? I have just noticed that my Pioneer DVD Navigation system is Navtech. I don't want to start putting DVD's into the system without knowing what I am doing!

At present I only have version 1 of the DVD, the latest one that has the TMC software is version 3, but I begrudge paying out £370 just for a software upgrade.

Regards,
John

calum

27-11-2004, 06:12 PM

glojo

27-11-2004, 06:32 PM

quite...

yes, I believe that Navteq is the correct name for Navtec/Navtech, but I could be wrong. Google isn't much help here...

they *could* be completely different... so don't take my word for it. (I don't even have a car with COMAND in it, yet; roll on 1st March :)

I 'might' try getting someone to put an old Mercedes-Benz DVD into the Pioneer to see if it recognizes it.

Good luck again with your choices,
John

glojo

28-11-2004, 10:55 AM

I 'might' try getting someone to put an old Mercedes-Benz DVD into the Pioneer to see if it recognizes it.

Good luck again with your choices,
John

:mad: Tried and it does not read the disc. Either Navteq and Navtech are different or there is something that stops the Pioneer from reading the Mercedes-Benz disc.

Regards,
John

calum

28-11-2004, 03:25 PM

glojo

28-11-2004, 03:32 PM

OK. The company used to be called Navigation Technologies, and offered products branded NAVTECH. In March 2004, both the company's name itself, and their product branding, were changed to NAVTEQ.

http://www.navteq.com/

[Navtec, which crops up regularly, seems to be nothing more than a common misspelling]

Well researched, so it looks like there is some 'coding' on the different model disc's? What would your theory be about the DVD's not being interchageable?

The 211 COMAND will receive the TMC signal in European countries that have it, but as we have already stated it will not receive it in the UK.

I wonder if the member from Guernsey could receive the French signal?
Regards,
John

calum

28-11-2004, 03:58 PM

Well researched, so it looks like there is some 'coding' on the different model disc's? What would your theory be about the DVD's not being interchageable?

The 211 COMAND will receive the TMC signal in European countries that have it, but as we have already stated it will not receive it in the UK.

It's very odd. Are you saying that TMC actually works for a UK car, with the Navteq Europe DVD, when in Europe, but it doesn't work in the same car when in the UK?

Or that it works for European cars, but not UK cars? If so, is there a different Europe DVD for the UK? No, that would be insane :)

glojo

28-11-2004, 04:56 PM

It's very odd. Are you saying that TMC actually works for a UK car, with the Navteq Europe DVD, when in Europe, but it doesn't work in the same car when in the UK?

Or that it works for European cars, but not UK cars? If so, is there a different Europe DVD for the UK? No, that would be insane :)

:D :D Hi Calum,
I'm still trying to understand what you have said :) PLEASE blame me for being thick, it is no criticism of you.

I have only been told by one person that there COMAND picked up TMC information when they were driving through Europe. I certainly have NOT read anything to either confirm or refute what I was told.

I believe the COMAND is identical for all European models, and the disc is definitely the same.

I have NO technical knowledge of what activates TMC, but I have both read, and been told that all we will eventually need is a software upgrade that will allow our COMAND to receive this signal? The buttons and everything else is already working, but when I press the TMC button it just states 'No signal received'

So my assumption (on what I have been told) is that my car will indeed pick up the TMC signal in any European country that has it?? Unless someone knows different??

Sorry about being a bit thick,
John ;)

calum

28-11-2004, 05:22 PM

:)

Well, the crux of my confusion is as follows:

o We know that TMC is broadcast in the UK - on Classic FM, and it's also broadcast in Europe, of course

o Reports that a UK car will receive and use the TMC data in Europe.

o UK cars will not receive and use the TMC data in the UK.

o Certainly for the old TeleAtlas CD maps, the CDs were available in both TMC and non-TMC flavours

This leads me to assume that there's something in the map CD/DVD itself that is needed for TMC. Yet, with the DVD system, we *have* a DVD that works with TMC in Europe, according to a report. I'm also assuming that the Navteq Europe DVD supplied with UK models is the same as that supplied in Europe.

We also know that the hardware itself can receive TMC (for the same reason).

So what exactly is it that needs upgrading so that we can use TMC in the UK? We know it's already broadcast, we know the DVD knows about it (since it works in Europe) and we know that the hardware itself can receive it (ditto).

I can only assume that everything needed is already there, but that licensing reasons mean it's artifically disabled, just for the UK mappings, perhaps?

glojo

28-11-2004, 05:40 PM

:)
I can only assume that everything needed is already there, but that licensing reasons mean it's artifically disabled, just for the UK mappings, perhaps?

Hi Calum,
I think you have hit the nail on the head :) It must be amusing for anyone that knows the real reasons why we are not receiving it, but my useless guess would be that there is perhaps some software coding that will activate the TMC signal in the UK and when Mercedes-Benz pays the licencing fee you and I will be paying in excess of £360 just for an 'upgrade' disc with the necessary programming code added.

I would further guess that the DVD I have at present contains the necessary software to work TMC when and if I ever go abroad. :)

Is anyone out there that knows anything about this interesting subject???? (I know there is) ;)

Regards,
John

calum

28-11-2004, 05:47 PM

Having re-read the thread, I see that tvcam has already made it quite clear, but I didn't grok it fully the first time around...

It's also interesting that you can order Navteq upgrade DVDs directly from their website, but it presents a list of car manufacturers, and MB are not on it.

Goldfish11

28-11-2004, 06:47 PM

I upgraded to the V3 (2004) DVD for £40 by getting a copy off ebay. It seems many company car drivers get the company to pay the £370 and then sell off the old version on Ebay.

If anyone is interested in a Version 2.0 (2003) Europa DVD (my old one) PM me. I would be very happy to sell it

saorbust

29-11-2004, 08:46 AM

Gents - I think I've told you all this before, but to recap...

TMC is broadcast continuously by Classic FM in the UK, numerous other stations in Europe.

In other words, you can pick it up. BUT

You need to be able to DECODE the messages.

And thats where the NAV CD comes in. You do NOT need a hardware upgrade to be able to get TMC messages. You simply need a translation engine.

The TMC codes are different for different countries. I have V4.0 of the DVD system - works fine in Germany.

We need a new DVD, with the codes to translate the signal. Then the job is done.

Now - the good news. I have seen it working here, in a test. Its a lot better than the older version for the CD based comand systems. Its probably being held up by the legal eagles.

Clarky.

glojo

29-11-2004, 09:00 AM

Gents - I think I've told you all this before, but to recap...Clarky.

Morning Clarky,
I think that your latest post is the 'icing on the cake' that has just added a little bit more information to your previous post.

Thank goodness I was not talking a 'load of clap-trap' in my own guess of what was happening.

It beats me why Mercedes-Benz have to 'test' the TMC, when it is available on numerous vehicles and different brand systems.

Thanks for the informative update,
John

Shude

29-11-2004, 09:19 AM

glojo

29-11-2004, 09:33 AM

I'm almost certain I saw in a config file on the teleatlas nav CD (with TMC) an entry for TMC data and mercedes-benz comand models listed as not being enabled. This probably means that the disc itself has been set to allow other models of travelpilot-based navigation (ford, fiat, jaguar, maserati etc are listed) to use the TMC data but MB comand specifically not. If I get get my hands on that TMC ISO again I might try to edit the ISO and turn TMC on for comand, see what happens.

Hi Shude,
That would be brilliant, is it in computer machine code or plain English? Unfortunately the latest Navigation software is produced by Navteq. The older versions use Teleatlas. No doubt they will appreciate your efforts though.

Regards,
John

All files except one on my DVD are '*.db' the one exception is '*.ips'

Alps

29-11-2004, 09:47 AM

just as a side point, TMC on my Alpine navigation has to be paid for with a subscription!

sym

29-11-2004, 09:54 AM

Its no easier getting a disc to work TMC with the BMW system either ! Apparently the latest version does have the coding, but its only available as a part number for the 7 series - not for the 5 series, which is a joke, as they both use the same Navi system ! Some nonsense about it has to be licenced for the particular car, before they can issue a disc associated with it !

You can buy it direct from navtech, but its a slightly different version apparently ... ho hum ! Luckily my car also has a full version of trafficmaster fitted, so might just get a subscription key for that in the meantime, even though it won't re-route my Sat Nav, it does cover A Roads !

S.

Shude

29-11-2004, 10:00 AM

That would be brilliant, is it in computer machine code or plain English?
It's in plain english, like a windows INI file, basically something like this:

[TMC]
Fiat whatever
Ford navigation thingy
Alfa Romeo WTFAmI
# Mercedes Benz Comand

and it's literally remarked so it's not enabled, delete the # and we're hopefully back in business. The only problem is that I had difficulty backing up a TMC navigation disc before so even if I can edit the file I probably won't be able to burn a working version of the disc. Seems sad that it's an extra £30 or something for a disc with TMC and as far as I know it doesn't even work! I did however see something like:

[General]
Copyprotection = 1

or something like that in there, which might also be an interesting switch to play with :)

glojo

29-11-2004, 11:21 AM

It's in plain english, like a windows INI file, basically something like this:

[TMC]
Fiat whatever
Ford navigation thingy
Alfa Romeo WTFAmI
# Mercedes Benz Comand

and it's literally remarked so it's not enabled, delete the # and we're hopefully back in business. The only problem is that I had difficulty backing up a TMC navigation disc before so even if I can edit the file I probably won't be able to burn a working version of the disc. Seems sad that it's an extra £30 or something for a disc with TMC and as far as I know it doesn't even work! I did however see something like:

[General]
Copyprotection = 1

or something like that in there, which might also be an interesting switch to play with :)

Thanks Shude,
I understand exactly what you are saying. I do have 'hidden files' set to off, but I can only see the two types of file.

Good spotting though :)
Regards,
John

tvcam

30-11-2004, 06:19 PM

Mercedes Benz contacted me two weeks ago, and have now refunded me £850, and will give me a free first service because the TMC is not operative.

I complained by letter to Milton Keynes that they keep saying in the instruction book TMC/Dynamic Route Guidance will work in countries where TMC is available, when we ALL know it does not work in the UK where TMC is available.

The latest news MB reported was, they are currently testing a TMC Dynamic Route Guidance option that will not just take into account the traffic on motorways (same thing they said three years ago).. and this is why they have not offered TMC in the UK yet.

My recommendation is that more customers should make WRITTEN complaints and request refunds, or buy an MB Comand with the TeleAtlas CD navigation system, and then only buy TeleAtlas own brand discs, because the Mercedes discs don't have operating TMC/Dynamic Route. But the TeleATlas own brand disc from
Jan2004 does have TMC coding and Dynamic Route Guidance. :bannana: :bannana:

Guy

30-11-2004, 06:31 PM

glojo

04-01-2005, 11:17 PM

Finally got the TMC working in the 'stretched limo'. All I need to do now is figure out how it works and the benefits of having it.

Regards,
John

saorbust

05-01-2005, 07:38 AM

tvcam

05-01-2005, 10:33 AM

Hmm - TeleAtlas have put up the price of their own brand Mercedes Comand Navigation CD containing TMC coding and Active Route Guidance feature to £160, but you can still buy the non TMC version from them for £92. BIG DIFFERENCE THOUGH..!!

Here is the link for the M Class, its called the Travel Pilot DX (Last two on the list). http://www.navshop.com/directsales/catalog/default.php?cPath=3_311_395_455_105&sort=1a&page=2

Navteq or Navtech or Navigation Technologies (its all the same company) still dont produce their own DVD disc with TMC coding, neither do Mercedes-Benz.

DONT BUY THE NEW DVD COMAND..!! or if you have like me, write a letter of complaint to Milton Keynes asking for your money back for the Comand unit £1650. They should offer you 50% (£850) plus a free first service, total worth about (£1100). But they still leave you with the working Comand..!!

Still no fix from Mercedes with the fault causing wrong Roundabout AUDIO instructions from the DVD Comand. Visual commands are ok..!!

saorbust

05-01-2005, 11:20 AM

Has anyone else had any success with refunds ?

lil.smartie

05-01-2005, 11:23 AM

Might be worth a try, we have the DVD comand as fitted in the c class and also have the same problems, I find myself shouting at the unit at roundabouts! But seeing as it is fitted in a Smart Forfour, factory fitted, I have to deal with Smart who seem to know nothing about the unit or it's operation!
Fingers crossed!
Kate

tvcam

05-01-2005, 11:57 AM

Anyone who wants a copy of my letter from Mercedes Benz I will be happy to send it by PM and email address. It reads....

" I am writing reference to our recent telephone conversation. Obviously I was disappointed to learn of your dissatisfaction with the command (they spelt it wrong not me) system on your new Mercedes, but I can fully appreciate the frustration that this has caused.

As agreed please find enclosed a cheque for £850 (50% of the command system) in full and final settlement of your claim regarding this system. As an additional gesture of goodwill I would also like to offer that we carry out the first service on your vehicle free of charge (this offer is for the service only and excludes any items that may require attention such as brake pads etc).

I shall raise your issues relating to the Command system with Mercedes and keep you informed of any developments relating to your concerns.

In closing please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this situation has caused.

Peter Jiggins
Aftersales Manager
Mercedes-Benz London"

I am now on their case again to get the roundabout audio fault repaired. It was suppose to be given a V.O.R. status in October last year

Steve

saorbust

05-01-2005, 04:21 PM

Ah so you didn't write to the MB HQ in Milton Keynes ? But the dealership head ? I wrote to the MB Office.

tvcam

05-01-2005, 06:43 PM

I did write to MB Milton Keynes Legal Department... They instructed my local dealer to offer compensation and fix the faults.

The cheque was drawn from a Mercedes Benz UK account and not the dealers bank account.

If I can be of any more help please ask

saorbust

06-01-2005, 12:42 PM

Ah okay Steve thanks. I'll try the same tactic in response to the letter they sent me ! In for a penny, in for 850 pounds !

tvcam

06-01-2005, 03:15 PM

good luck... let me know how you get on..

steve

paulrstaylor

06-01-2005, 04:32 PM

Read this today.....

ITIS on same wavelength as Germans

TRAFFIC information specialist ITIS has secured a three-year
deal that will see its radio traffic message channel help
Mercedes drivers avoid getting stuck in jams.

The contract with DaimlerChrysler UK, Mercedes-Bent's parent
company, means every car manufactured with a satellite
navigation system will also have ITIS's traffic detection
service as standard.

The latest deal is the 16th the Altrinchaan-based firm has
sealed with major car manufacturers for the product,which enables
drivers to receive up-to-the-minute traffic information that
helps to re-route them away from traffic congestion.

ITIS chiefexecutive, Stuart Marks,said he was delighted with the
coup, adding that getting Mercedes on board meant the company had
now struck deals with all the major German car manufacturers.

He said: "This is the last of the big German players after Porsche,
BMW and Volkswagen for us, so it is strategically important to us.
We are also pretty confident that Jaguar will come through soon too."

Mr Marks said he is now waiting for an increase in the volume of
the product's usage as satellite navigation becomes a more common
facility in new cars.

"As satellite navigation becomes cheaper or becomes standard we hope
tosee revenues increase."

The company posted a £4.6m turnover for the six months to September
and increase of £31.4m on the previous year.

And it is predicted to finish the year with a turnover of £1O.1m, with
a loss of around £1.5m.

tvcam

06-01-2005, 04:40 PM

Wow..

good news..

can't wait to see it working..

do you think they have been reading our posts

silly thought i know..!!

glojo

06-01-2005, 04:44 PM

Wow..

good news..

can't wait to see it working..

but hang on, that article is dated june last year... so what has happened to the service...

why have we not got it..

Isn't it the silly American dating system. Month day year

lil.smartie

06-01-2005, 04:44 PM

think the date is in US format ie 6/1/05 if not it's not due out till June this year!
Kate

culpano

06-01-2005, 04:45 PM

Oh dear stop it everyone - I'm gadget crazy :crazy:
Does this TMC then just need an updated CD and works with all COMAND systems ?

tvcam

06-01-2005, 04:55 PM

Just found this on the ITIS web site which confirms PAULRSTAYLOR posting

http://corporate.itisholdings.com/news/pdf/mercedes050105.pdf

nice find PAULRSTAYLOR.. top man..!!

glojo

06-01-2005, 05:12 PM

This is where I hope to be proved wrong.

My money is on us having to buy an 'upgrade' disc at a rediculously extortionate price!

I have just tried my COMAND and it states 'No TMC Reception'

Please someone tell me I'm wrong, and Mercedes-Benz is going to give me the service that my equipment can receive when I am in Europe.

Regards,
John

tvcam

06-01-2005, 05:24 PM

John

It will probably happen like this...

When you buy you next map disc you will be given the option for a non TMC or a TMC version. This is what TeleAtlas have been doing for the year. Their price difference is £92 for the non TMC, and £160 for the TMC coded version.

You wont have to go back to the dealer with your MB, just pop in the new disc and let it load the configuration for your car (you may have to tell it if you have new or part worn tyres though)

So if Mercedes Benz are going to run the show, prob add another 50% to those figures and thats prob what your choice and costs will be..

You could of course just keep you present disc, then nothing will change on your Comand.

The interesting thing now.. will TeleAtlas still be allowed to keep selling their own TMC branded disc..

So in summary John, hopefully you will have the choice to upgrade when you buy your next mapping disc (but of course that wont be next week)

This years 2005 Jan disc has just been released, so the next scheduled disc with the MERCEDES TMC coding could be the April/May map update disc, or there could be a special edition to launch the service..

dont hold your breath though

Does this help..

Steve

saorbust

06-01-2005, 05:35 PM

On another topic, I've actually met Stuart Marks. He's a top guy.

Glad to see the news.

Don't forget Steve - we are talking about the DVD version of the discs, not the CD version which you are refering to.

Clarky.

glojo

06-01-2005, 05:39 PM

John

It will probably happen like this...

When you buy you next map disc you will be given the option for a non TMC or a TMC version. This is what TeleAtlas have been doing for the year. Their price difference is £92 for the non TMC, and £160 for the TMC coded version.

Does this help..

Hi,
I'm afraid I'm not convinced on your theory, the reason being that if I travel into Europe my COMAND will receive TMC broadcasts. The authority is already wrote on the DVD.

I also have a Pioneer DVD Navigation system and all it needed to pick up the TMC signal was version 3 of the software, NOT version 3 with TMC, just version 3. This had the TMC authorisation wrote on it and the next thing I had to have was a dedicated aerial to pick up Classic FM. Now this is fitted the system works perfectly. The Pioneer navigation software is also wrote by Navtech (or Navteq)

My guess is still down to having to buy a DVD upgrade, but this guess is only for the 211/S class DVD system as I have absolutely no knowledge about the other models.

I am still hoping to be proved wrong though.

Thanks for the input.

We ought to have a sweep and also the price of the upgrade (£379 including VAT) would be my guess.

Regards,
John

tvcam

06-01-2005, 05:40 PM

Clarky

I was talking broadly about both systems, the CD and DVD.

We know the CD system has working TMC with TeleAtlas own brand discs.

The Mercedes CD and DVD does not have working TMC to date. I have got both systems, the CD version in my 2002 ML, and the DVD version in wifes 2005 C Class

Hopefully if your right, they may leave the Comand CD version alone, and let TeleAtlas supply the TMC coded discs as they can now..

MB may just concentrate on the DVD Comand because it is the current Comand unit which is slowly being fiitted to all models, even though the Harmon Kardon audio is a lot worse that the Bose it replaced..!!!!

Steve

glojo

06-01-2005, 05:54 PM

Hopefully if your right, they may leave the Comand CD version alone, and let TeleAtlas supply the TMC coded discs as they can now..

Hi Steve,
I note how you refer to TeleAtlas, does Mercedes-Benz use two different types of navigational software on new vehicles, or have they changed suppliers from Navtech, or finally am I totally confused and my vehicle actually has TeleAtlas software?

Ooops just found my latest correspondance TeleAtlas write the software for the M class and Viano.
Regards,
John

I am going to have to write another letter

culpano

06-01-2005, 05:58 PM

My guess is still down to having to buy a DVD upgrade, but this guess is only for the 211/S class DVD system as I have absolutely no knowledge about the other models.

My CD based COMAND shows TMC but says it's not enabled (or similar message) so I reckon it does work just by getting the updated disk based on what Steve has said.

tvcam

06-01-2005, 06:01 PM

John.. Its not easy I know.. you have my full support

Clarky.. So how do you know Stuart Marks.. thats a bit of a long ball.. are you working for MB or TeleAtlas or NavTech.. tell me to mind my own business if you like, I wont be offended

Steve

saorbust

07-01-2005, 10:02 AM

Steve - I work for none of those companies, I've met Stuart as part of some research I did into an article I wrote on TMC when it first appeared for the CD based system.

For TMC to work on the DVD based system, the disc must have the location / translation codes. These are different for each country - hence the DVD disc works abroad for TMC in that country. For legal reasons (MB do not own the TMC broadcast rights in this country) they aren't on the disc for the UK - as its a COMMERICAL license. In Europe its not.

Hence you will have to buy a new DVD, with the correct codes, once one is made avaliable commerically.

Clarky.

glojo

07-01-2005, 10:16 AM

Hence you will have to buy a new DVD, with the correct codes, once one is made avaliable commerically.

Hi Clarky,
Totally agree with every word you have wrote. What will your guess be for the upgrade?

When I complained about three upgrade DVD's being released within 12 months Mercedes-BenzUK told me my system will work 'perfectly' without buying any upgrades?? Well, I have decided to write back now and hold them to their word. My system has the TMC facility, it works perfectly in 'some' parts of Europe. It does not work (obviously) here. It was installed when I bought the vehicle and I WANT it working!

Regards,
John

Whats the betting they disagree?

saorbust

07-01-2005, 11:43 AM

Hi John,

Personally I think it will be in the order of another £50 or so. Given the DVD is over 380 already its not such a big difference as the CD price. I have absolutely no idea though so don't hold me to it !

As for MB - worth registering your complaint. At the end of the day its all pressure on MB to increase their TTM for the product.

I don't think I'll take your bet ! ;)

Forgot to add - if anyone wants a copy of the article I mentioned - I have a raw text version which will give you a flavour - without the graphics. Alternatively join the other club.... PM if so.

glojo

08-01-2005, 10:30 AM

Hi John,

Would be curious to hear how you got on. I have TMC in the CLK (CD based version before everyone jumps), but...

1; Only works on Motorways (DVD version gets over this I hear)
2; Requires you tune into Classic FM (Carrier) for reception - ie, listen to CD's !

Very sorry about the delay in answering your question. 'The Boss' took the van to have the aerial fitted and I still cannot find its location. (they state it is on 'a window')

I have played with a few buttons and the first thing of interest was that the tuner can be tuned into any radio station, BUT........... The TMC somehow gets its signal from Classic. There must be a seperate electronic gizzmo inside the system that allows it to receive the signal. It also displays how many radio stations transmit the signal. It just shows 'Classic'

I then checked on 'Information'
It informed me of: 'Slow moving traffic at Chudliegh on the A38' So it does take in 'A' roads as well as motorways.

We will not be going on any actual motoway journeys for a while, but when I am feeling okay I will type in a route from Torquay to perhaps Nurenburg :) and see if it highlights any delays.

Being a DVD system it updates very quickly and works out new routes almost straight away. If you fail to turn right when instructed, it will usually have worked out a new route within 30 metres if you are travelling in town at about the proper speed :)

It is difficult to compare the two systems, but my wife believes the Pioneer gives better verbal instructions. However I am always present in the van and will be looking at the monitor and advising her of where to turn, which helps clarify the verbal instruction from the system.

Bye for now,
John

glojo

14-01-2005, 09:38 AM

Here we go again.

I wrote to Mercedes-Benz UK and stated that I believed TMC was soon to be activated and I expected my COMAND to be able to receive the signal without incurring any further expense on my part.

Whoops.

Exact quote

***** Thank you for your further letter.

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify my meaning in our previous letters regarding the "updates" to your vehicle. This only relates to the updated DVD disc for your navigation system and in that respect, is not compulsory to purchase. This should not be referred to for any other updates your vehicle may require.

With reference to the TMC system, I am pleased to confirm that we have now signed a new contract with ITIS and hope to launch the TMC service in the later part of this year.

I trust this is the information you require.

Yours sincerely,

..........
Resolution Specialist
Escalation Team
****************************************

The letter completely fails to answer my question regarding the payment for an upgrade disc solely to make something work, that I have already paid for.

I suppose I need to find a member of the legal profession that owns a 211 with DVD COMAND and listen to their expert opinion on this issue?

Are you out there??? ;) :)

Regards,
John

tvcam

14-01-2005, 10:50 AM

John.. I am no expert.. But the content of the letter looks right.. and remember it is only talking about the DVD Comand (disc via Navteq)

When my ML eventually got TMC and the Active Route Guidance working (CD version disc direct from TeleAtlas) it was as the letter you have received says, by the purchase of a newer mapping disc.

So as well as getting the latest maps/data you will also get the software/coding on the same disc to activate the TMC. The choice will be yours to buy the newer disc with or without TMC coding. Or just keep the disc you have with older mapping informtion and no TMC operation.

Does this help

I can't understand why they need to delay it to the end of the year.. that prob means 2006 year for us on an upgrade and August 05 for the new MB models.. Yet another year

Steve

saorbust

14-01-2005, 11:02 AM

I have played with a few buttons and the first thing of interest was that the tuner can be tuned into any radio station, BUT........... The TMC somehow gets its signal from Classic. There must be a seperate electronic gizzmo inside the system that allows it to receive the signal. It also displays how many radio stations transmit the signal. It just shows 'Classic'

I then checked on 'Information'
It informed me of: 'Slow moving traffic at Chudliegh on the A38' So it does take in 'A' roads as well as motorways.

Bye for now,
John

John,

Superb news. The Tuner information is particularly good - lets hope the same architecture is in the MB system. You are right re the dual tuner setup - its the dual receivers thats important as well !

The A road confirms what I've already seen in demo.

Thanks again,
Jonathon

glojo

14-01-2005, 11:10 AM

When my ML eventually got TMC (CD version disc direct from TeleAtlas) and the Active Route Guidance working it was, as the letter you have received says, by the purchase of a newer mapping disc.

Hi Steve,
I understand what you are saying but our systems are different.

There will NOT be two upgrade versions of the DVD offered. (One with TMC, the other without). I say this not through prior knowledge but solely due to the fact that my DVD already has TMC coding for Europe wrote on it. No European country is offered a seperate 'cheaper' DVD without the TMC coding. Which at most must surely only be a very few lines.

My vehicle has TMC, it WORKS in Europe, I paid for a vehicle that has TMC and I think it a cheek that I should pay extra to have it work. Imagine if you were charged for each radio station you received. I have already paid for the 'radio' to receive the transmitting station (Classic FM)

Each 'upgrade' DVD that has been released for both the new S and E class have not only new mapping information, but also UPGRADES for the actual COMAND navigation system.

My complaints are that any upgrade to the actual working system should be free for at the very least the first 12 months of the vehicles life and not £370 per disc. I have no idea how much the CD version is and cannot comment, but there have been three upgrades for my system since March last year and each one has cost the price I have mentioned (that includes VAT) and each one has had upgrade information that no doubt are relevant to my system.

I cannot visualise the TMC disc being any cheaper and would not be surprised if Mercedes-Benz even put a premium on top of the basic cost of the DVD.

As stated the ML and Vaniao have different systems which I cannot comment on.

Regards,
John

tvcam

14-01-2005, 11:10 AM

Hi Jonathon.. I wrote this on post 14 on this string...

Comand DVD navigation unit (uses NAVTEQ discs) has dual tuners, one passive just for TMC data reception, so you can listen to radio station other than Classic FM..!!

Hi John

Yes you are right you do have TMC coding for main land Europe, but that is because it is free in those countries. It is only in the UK TMC coding is chargeable.. Good old Brit business Marketing boys and gilrs have stuffed us

Steve

Mr E

14-01-2005, 12:12 PM

Hi guys,

Having digested the thread contents again with the latest info, I've been speaking to the lease company that supplies / manages our fleet. They were very interested to hear of the saga (I also emailed them a link to the thread as well) as there is a possible financial impact (possible refund) as well as customer satisfaction issues.

My argument is very simple - I chose COMAND on the basis of TMC/Dynamic Route Guidance. The function availability was confirmed (the function works in countries where TMC is available) and I checked whether TMC was avaliable in the UK. At no time was there any mention that UK functionality would not be available or that I would have to pay to have it added.

The lease company seem to be very sympathetic, and I'll post updates accordingly. Perhaps the added weight of a major lease company raising this issue will move MBUK's position forward.

calum

14-01-2005, 03:51 PM

My argument is very simple - I chose COMAND on the basis of TMC/Dynamic Route Guidance.

Playing Devil's Advocate: does it actually say in the MB literature that COMAND has TMC/DRG?

calum

14-01-2005, 03:55 PM

The brochure says "COMAND [...] offering dynamic route guidance".

Still, I think this is misleading advertising, rather than a legal issue.

On the downside: we'd all want map upgrades anyway, wouldn't we?

tvcam

14-01-2005, 04:17 PM

yes

glojo

14-01-2005, 04:20 PM

Playing Devil's Advocate: does it actually say in the MB literature that COMAND has TMC/DRG?

Hi calum,
Reasonable question. You get an 212 page manual when specifying the COMAND option. From page 162 to page 165 it shows you how to use your Dynamic Route Guidance with TMC. It also refers to it in numerous other places in the manual.

HOWEVER (me playing Devils Advocate)
The manual also states...

Mercedes-Benz constantly updates its systems to the latest technological standards and therefore retains the right to implement changes in design, equipment and technology. Thus no liability can be derived from statements, illustrations and descriptions contained in this manual.

Then on another page.
Dynamic route guidance is not possible in all countries at present. It might be possible to update the COMAND using a newer navigation DVD.

This is the nitty gritty area and the one I have been writing to Mercedes-Benz about.

It then goes on to state

*** A TMC station transmits free TMC traffic messages in addition to its regular radio programme. ******* (I accept that in the UK this is not the case)

Over to you,
John

Edit:
Regarding the question of map upgrades.

Yes I would love to have a yearly type map upgrade service and would perhaps consider a £50 yearly subscription fee.

BUT we are talking so far of three upgrades in twelve months and costs in excess of £1100 just for minor upgrades??

calum

14-01-2005, 04:39 PM

glojo

14-01-2005, 04:55 PM

yup, I'm not arguiing at all; just wondering what the Sale of Goods Act position was. I don't think the user manual would affect that anyway, even if it doesn't have disclaimers, since it isn't presented as part of the "invitation to treat" that precedes the sale.

However, the brochure does mention DRG. Still, it also has the disclaimers, so that wouldn't help.

As John says, the real nub of the issue is the price of the updates. If it were a yearly £50 fee, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, I think :)

Hi again Calum,
I totally agree with everything you have said. Brochures and manuals will always have small print 'opt outs' I cannot imagine anyone going into a sales room and getting a signed declaration from a sales person stating the the sale was only agreed on the proviso that it had a working TMC system. I personally would be impressed if a sales person had heard of TMC and actually knew how to fully work the COMAND system.

I just wonder how many of us here have this latest COMAND system and what, if any influence we could bring to bear? (I think perhaps no influence whatsoever)

Thanks for your advice,
John

calum

14-01-2005, 05:08 PM

I'm counting the days to my E350, but I doubt I will get any progress on the TMC issue. I will try, though. Of course, I don't want to ruin my relationship with the dealership, either. They've been helpful in the past.

drifting

16-01-2005, 12:25 PM

Seeing as I have the attention span of my goldfish. I have read through the thread thus far, and hope I have got this right?

1: DVD command TMC does not work because Merc do not have a contract with them?

2: Even with the latest Map update Jan 05 the situation has not changed?

3: We are stuffed till Merc sort it out?

6 days to my E320CDI, with DVD comand :)

Regards Paul.

glojo

16-01-2005, 12:36 PM

We are stuffed till Merc sort it out?

6 days to my E320CDI, with DVD comand :)

Hi Paul,
You have it 100% and I am gradually mellowing and coming to accept that we will all probably have to bite the proverbial, if we want our TMC COMAND to eventually receive its signal and operate the Dynamic Route Guidance..

Mercedes-Benz have had to pay for a licence to receive the signal!

good luck with your excellent choice of vehicle.

Did you opt for the fuel hungry EU4 version?

Regards,
John

drifting

16-01-2005, 03:07 PM

Did you opt for the fuel hungry EU4 version?

Regards,
John

Worrying :eek: I have no idea what an EU4 is? My car plate is an 2004/04, How can I find out the EU bit? Had a 270CDI for the past couple of years that has helped me convince the boss (Wife) that the new one will not use THAT much more fuel. :devil: (Ok so I may have fibbed)

Regards Paul.

glojo

16-01-2005, 03:45 PM

Worrying :eek: I have no idea what an EU4 is? My car plate is an 2004/04, How can I find out the EU bit? Had a 270CDI for the past couple of years that has helped me convince the boss (Wife) that the new one will not use THAT much more fuel. :devil: (Ok so I may have fibbed)

Regards Paul.

Hi Paul,
I am surprised the sales person did not explain or offer you the option. EU3 and EU4 are European stipulations relating to fuel 'pollution' (The revised engine has reduced nitrous oxide and particulate emissions to meet the new regulations, but a slightly higher CO2 output)

I have no idea on pricing but the EU3 is 4 mpg more economical over the EU4.

The 270CDI is only about 1 mpg more economical than the 320CDI EU3, but there is a noticeable difference in
between the two engines in your favour ;)

Good luck,
John

drifting

16-01-2005, 03:58 PM

Thanks John.
Well my car is an Ex demo, so knowing my luck it will probably be the EU4 version, but whatever.... Have to say when I test drove the 320 did notice one hell of a difference on the engine noise, as well as it taking off really well.

Suppose I ought to drag this back onto thread. Re the TMC, you say that MB have now bought the rights to use it? Are we then just waiting to hear? or has it been released? Did confuse the saleman when I dashed to the back of the car and pulled out the DVD disk to find the version (3.0) and pointed out that I wanted Jan 2005 version, I left him podering that one. Being a bit of an IT nut (Worked on computers since the early 80's) I made sure yesturday that my car had the Audio jack in the glove box (Which a chap on here kindy supplied a picture of) Think the sales guy thought I was off my trolly.

Regards Paul.

glojo

16-01-2005, 04:12 PM

pulled out the DVD disk to find the version (3.0) and pointed out that I wanted Jan 2005 version,

:) Well done, I wonder where they will try to get version four from?

I have no idea when version four was released but it was last year sometime.

Back on thread with TMC.

Mercedes-Benz have bought a licence to receive the signal from ITIS, but a member of the Resolutions Team has informed me in writing that it will not be available until 'later in the year'.

The woman that told me this, also told me the software was wrote by 'TeleAtlas' (It is not) so I tend not to take what she says as the final word.

Good luck,
John

(Hopefully your car will be EU3. The newer one has only just been released)

saorbust

17-01-2005, 09:02 AM

Version 4 was released in Oct last year. I have a copy - doesn't make much difference to Ver 3. The car will be EU3. MB only started making the EU4 version for the UK in Nov / Dec.

Clarky.

glojo

17-01-2005, 09:26 AM

Version 4 was released in Oct last year. I have a copy - doesn't make much difference to Ver 3. The car will be EU3. MB only started making the EU4 version for the UK in Nov / Dec.

Clarky.

Thanks Clarky,
If the car was an 04 plate then it will as you quite rightly point out definitely be an EU3 engine (more economical) but it would only come with version 3 software?

As you have already mentioned there is very little difference visually between three and four. It would be nice however to have the very latest software.

Somewhere on this forum I have read of someone having version 4.1? Have you any knowledge of this, it seems strange that they have broken away from straight numbers?

Nice speaking to you,
John

saorbust

17-01-2005, 09:44 AM

Hi John,

Correct. It will have version 3 software. Version 4 appeared in cars during September last year (my business partner had her car delivered two weeks after mine - she had V4, I had V3 !!).

I've not heard about V4.1 - I'll try to find out more if I can.

enticknap

03-03-2005, 08:49 PM

Has anyone seen or received any further updates on the TMC coding?

Cheers

saorbust

04-03-2005, 11:03 AM

Nothing from my sources.

Mr E

04-03-2005, 03:13 PM

Just heard back from MB yesterday - TMC will be available "later in the year". Because it has cost MB to licence, they will be increase the option cost of COMAND for new vehicles and will charge existing customers for the updated disc when it arrives.

I'm now thinking about embarking on a "misrepresentation" journey - I specced COMAND on the basis that MB told me that TMC / Dynamic Routing was available and no mentioned was made that it needed licencing.

The other annoying thing was that the response I had (from a director of the company) took nearly a month to get AND had less detail and information than you can get in this forum.

Rant over - for the time being........

glojo

05-03-2005, 09:39 AM

Good morning everyone,
I have recently read a message on another forum which I believe is of interest to members reading this thread.

The next EU version (5.0) coming this spring will bring Bird Eye View (or 3D) to the E-class

Oslo is someone I hold in very high regard, and if he states there is an upgrade coming out this Spring, then as far as I am concerned, there is an upgrade coming out this Spring.

Will it have our TMC upgrade?????? Who knows.

Both myself and others have received communications from Mercedes-Benz UK stating this upgrade will be released in the 'late summer', so we just have to wait and see.

I have no further knowledge of this latest information, and ALL credit must go to 'Oslo'.

Regards,
John

MikeL

05-03-2005, 10:20 AM

Hi John,

Hope the news is correct - it is about time we had the option of 3D, I was watching a program about Japan - can't remember when or where - and if your car had the same system as all the cars around, then they would all show up on the display in real time.

Mike

glojo

05-03-2005, 10:25 AM

saorbust

06-03-2005, 09:06 AM

Good morning everyone,
I have recently read a message on another forum which I believe is of interest to members reading this thread.

Oslo is someone I hold in very high regard, and if he states there is an upgrade coming out this Spring, then as far as I am concerned, there is an upgrade coming out this Spring.

Will it have our TMC upgrade?????? Who knows.

Both myself and others have received communications from Mercedes-Benz UK stating this upgrade will be released in the 'late summer', so we just have to wait and see.

I have no further knowledge of this latest information, and ALL credit must go to 'Oslo'.

Regards,
John

Hi John,

Great news. I checked out the nav in a CLS class yesterday and it didn't have the 3D view either - so software upgrade makes sense. Lets hope we can get the part number soon....

calum

08-03-2005, 09:09 PM

Picked up my E350 today :)

The dealer gave me a demo of COMAND, and actually pointed out - without prompting - the TMC button, gave the full story, and said it would require buying a new software disc when it does come "later in the year". So at least they have their story straight now...

Goldfish11

09-03-2005, 10:56 AM

BUT DOES THE UPGRADE HAVE THE M6 BIRMINGHAM RELIEF ROAD ON IT !!!! :crazy:

glojo

09-03-2005, 11:14 AM

BUT DOES THE UPGRADE HAVE THE M6 BIRMINGHAM RELIEF ROAD ON IT !!!! :crazy:

I watched a Navtech (Navteq) propaganda feature 'advertising' and they demonstrated just how up to date their system was. Researchers out in the field with specially adapted cars that carry operators that plot in new roads, names etc. These are then programmed into the main database and updates are released each year!!!!!!!!

How easy it is to talk a good fight. How easy to say what goes into a product. The reality though is they have not got a clue what they are taliking about. The product is good enough to get to 'b' from 'a', but it needs a lot of input from the user.

I suppose we should be grateful it has the M6! :rolleyes:

John

Billy

09-03-2005, 12:02 PM

My car (E211) was serviced last week & as part of all the recalls it had I was given a new DVD Satnav disc.

It does not show the M6 Toll on the map but when you drive along the toll road the dash display says "M6 Toll" work that one out!!

glojo

09-03-2005, 12:16 PM

My car (E211) was serviced last week & as part of all the recalls it had I was given a new DVD Satnav disc.

Hi Billy,
Boy have you thrown in a leg breaker. Have you any idea why they gave you a new DVD? Have you any documentation that explains this? (Unlikely I know)

I do not want to make waves if you were given the DVD as a good will gesture by your local dealer.

Well done for getting it and was it version four?

Regards,
John

Billy

09-03-2005, 12:29 PM

calum

09-03-2005, 12:42 PM

version 4.1 in mine, too.

calum

10-03-2005, 05:48 PM

I note that on the back of the 4.1 DVD case it lists 22 countries "available on the DVD", and then separately lists 7 of those countries under "TMC coverage". Those 7 are: D, A, DK, North I, NL, CH, S.

glojo

10-03-2005, 06:01 PM

Excuse my ignorance but why the leg breaker?

Just been out to the car & removed the disc, the disc is version 4.1, numbers on the disc are:
A 211 827 81 59 & B6782 3395. No documentation but I can ask the question, the car goes in today.

Sorry for my termology. We were all convinced Version 4 was tye latest update, but both yourself and another member have 4.1? That means in twelve months there have now been THREE updates?

I wonder if we are all entitled to receive version 4.1? Thanks very much for your post.

John

prprandall51

10-03-2005, 06:08 PM

I am very confident that I had TMC coverage in France earlier this year (V4.0 disk). Wierd.

Have you 4.1 owners noticed any difference between 4.0 and 4.1?

For those who received 4.1 in a new car: Do you mind if I ask when your car was manufactured (most accurate figure usually comes from the bottom of the ashtray or similar component - then add two weeks)? Mine was manufactured in lated November 2004 (though I didn't collect it until late Jan 2005) and I got a V4.0 disk. I feel robbed...

calum

10-03-2005, 06:19 PM

I remember someone saying TMC worked in France, so was surprised not to see F on the list of coverage.

I picked up my car on Tuesday; the EU conformance certificate says 11/04. I don't have an ashtray though. Tell me something else to look at and I'll go and see.

prprandall51

10-03-2005, 06:24 PM

Hi Callum, from memory, the little square pot that sits in the middle of the centre armrest / console (where cup holders go if your dealer offered them to you as an option...). On the bottom it will have two or three roundels - three I think - indicating day, month and year of build.

With Just in Time manufacturing, it is highly unlikely that this (or any other simialr item in the car) was made more than two to three weeks before the car was assembled.

Got to sign off for the night. Thanks for looking. Catch up tomorrow.

Philip

calum

10-03-2005, 06:46 PM

hi Philip,
the little square pot that sits in the middle of the centre armrest / console (where cup holders go if your dealer offered them to you as an option...). On the bottom it will have two or three roundels - three I think - indicating day, month and year of build.

I had a look; it's not that easy to decipher. There are three roundels as you say.

The first is labelled in a circle "12..3..6..9" which suggests month, and is marked with an arrow pointing to 11, I assume November.

The second is labelled 0123456789, with markings inside of a 0 and a bar with a line across it, not pointing to any of the labels in particular. Not immediately obvious what this denotes.

The third is labelled 1-10 in Roman numerals, and the arrow points between the V and VI. Again, not clear what this is.

glojo

10-03-2005, 06:50 PM

I didn't collect it until late Jan 2005) and I got a V4.0 disk. I feel robbed...

Evening,
I know the feeling. I took delivery in February last year, and in the beginning of March version 3 was released. Hence all my correspondance with Mercedes-Benz UK.

I am still of the opinion that these 'updates' should be free for the first twelve months. Not only do they contain updated information for the mapping, they usually have upgrades to the system. The main one I have noticed is the COMAND now accepts full post codes.

Unfortunately I hit a brick wall at Mercedes-Benz and got nowhere, hence my query about the dealer giving 4.1 as part of an 'upgrade'.

Regards,
John

craigyb

16-03-2005, 10:55 AM

Just to make you feel a bit better, Audi still don't have TMC working in the UK for their DVD based Navigation systems. So your not alone. I fitted one into my S8 yesterday and everything works fine except for TMC.

glojo

16-03-2005, 11:01 AM

prprandall51

16-03-2005, 12:21 PM

:D I have it on my Sprinter though. ;)

John

Hi John,
Bearing in mind that some MB vehicles already have access to TMC in their navigation systems, I assume that these are all Blaupunkt-based systems? Do you know if this is the case?

Can I ask you (and any other contributors who have TMC) what the service is like, in your opinion? Does the traffic data seem comprehensive, accurate, up-to-date, etc.?

I know that the forthcoming E-class TMC service will utilise ITIS data but I am a little disappointed that there are no TrafficMaster-based TMC services available, since their data is ideally suited to dynamic route calculation.

I am therefore wondering how good the service will be and whether it will be worth the cost of the new navigation disk when it comes out.

thanks
Philip

Shude

16-03-2005, 01:13 PM

Bearing in mind that some MB vehicles already have access to TMC in their navigation systems, I assume that these are all Blaupunkt-based systems? Do you know if this is the case?
Kinda. Older comand units and "autopilot" navs are made by Bosch/Blaupunkt, newer ones are Harmon-Becker. I suspect that both Harmon-Becker and Bosch/Blaupunkt have some financial or organisational interest in the current comand units.

glojo

16-03-2005, 01:43 PM

Hi John,
Can I ask you (and any other contributors who have TMC) what the service is like, in your opinion? Does the traffic data seem comprehensive, accurate, up-to-date, etc.?

Hi Philip,
Fortunately, or unfortunately my navigation system in the Sprinter is an additional 'toy' that was fitted prior to my taking delivery. It is the Pioneer DVD system and appears very good.

I am fully conversant with the navigation system, but the TMC upgrade was only carried out after my Lincolnshire Christmas break so I have not really had a chance to evaluate that side of it.

Whenever the TMC signal is being received a little coloured box appears on the lower right of the screen which states 'Classic TMC' (or very similar) You can then access all the TMC information that is being broadcast. For example if there was a traffic delay on the A14 at Norwich, I simply click on that line and it takes me to the point on the map. Reading the instruction manual I am reliably informed that the Dynamic Routing would take this into account and alter my route accordingly without any input from the driver.

I am hoping that the E-class will operate in a similar fashion as the navigational software is wrote by the same company. I am led to believe that the TMC licence itself is purchased from ITIS so that should not influence how Navtech write the software???

What is your view on this please?

Regards,
John

prprandall51

16-03-2005, 02:03 PM

Hi John, Navtech don't write the navigation software - that's done by the hardware manufacturer (Pioneer, Becker, Blaupunkt, etc.) - they only provide the mapping data. So the quality of the TMC implementation is entirely down to the abilities of the software writers of each system - two navigation systems sharing mapping data from Navteq (or TeleAtlas) could be wildly different in their dynamic routing capabilities.

The good news is that when I picked up my car from the factory and went on a little tour of northern europe the TMC worked brilliantly (once it took me on an extended drive off the Autobahn and then dropped me back on the autobahn about 500 metres beyond an enormous smash. The on-screen information is very impressive and the appearance of a little breakdown truck icon on the Comand display map to indicate that the accident is being cleared up is simply magical!

The (bad?) news is that the best data for dynamic route guidance is undoubtedly the TrafficMaster data, since this is extremely comprehensive flow-based data (you can see their extensive coverage simply from the number of monitors they have up - they are on every major road and monitor 24/7). However TrafficMaster data isn't an option for us, so that is why I am eager to hear reports of the quality of ITIS data.

Their collection methods are good in theory but I wonder how much actual reliable data they are able to collect as they don't use sensors. ITIS depend on tracked vehicles being out on the roads and also on interpreting incident-based data. Incident data is great for traffic bulletins but fairly useless for dynamic guidance.

Philip

glojo

16-03-2005, 02:25 PM

Their collection methods are good in theory but I wonder how much actual reliable data they are able to collect as they don't use sensors. ITIS depend on tracked vehicles being out on the roads and also on interpreting incident-based data. Incident data is great for traffic bulletins but fairly useless for dynamic guidance.

Hi Philip,
I just knew I could rely on you to come up with the goodies. From what I have seen of all the different hold-ups and delays they look very similar to the alerts that local radio's put out, would that be correct?

Is Navtech and Navteq the same company. I have also been informed that Teleatlas is a completely different company from Navtech and the software is incompatible. I do know that Pioneer software is incompatible with the E-class COMAND ;)

Regards,
John

prprandall51

16-03-2005, 02:46 PM

From what I have seen of all the different hold-ups and delays they look very similar to the alerts that local radio's put out, would that be correct?
John
Yes, ITIS merged with Metro Networks a while back - Metro was the market leader in radio traffic bulletins. ITIS also collect flow data from "probe" vehicles.

(I believe) ITIS use the incident-based data to create flow data by consulting an historical database to quantify the likely impact on traffic flow of a particular incident to calculate flow data that dynamic route guidance can use (e.g. If we have two lanes out on the M25 how long a delay does that typically cause to traffic at this time in the morning and what delay should be expected on the other carriageway while everyone slows to have a look?).
The flow data is broadcast on the traffic Message Channel (TMC) and used by nav systems.

Is Navtech and Navteq the same company. I have also been informed that Teleatlas is a completely different company from Navtech and the software is incompatible. I do know that Pioneer software is incompatible with the E-class COMAND ;)
John

Navtech changed its name a while back to Navteq. Navteq and TeleAtlas are arch rivals! I used to work for TeleAtlas.

Both comapanies only produce map data - no navigation software at all. You can get data disks from both companies for a number of navigation units - but not (currently) the E class (only Navteq). However, I am guessing that the next nav disk (with TMC) will be from TeleAtlas (from what I have read on these forums). I think the confusion arises for the fact that the map data disks often - but not always - contain an update of the navigation software itself, leading to the impression that the nav software also comes from Navteq. However, this is simply an efficient distribution method on behalf of the navigation software writers - no point in creating two DVDs when the updated software will fit on the same disk as the updated map data.

Regards,

Philip

glojo

16-03-2005, 03:16 PM

Navtech changed its name a while back to Navteq. Navteq and TeleAtlas are arch rivals! I used to work for TeleAtlas.

Hi again Philip,
First off thanks again for the very interesting information. As you are no doubt aware I and others have been in correspondance with Mercedes-Benz UK over this issue. I was surprised to see that the M-class and Viano systems use TeleAtlas, but other models use NavTech. Confusion might reign supreme, but I suppose they do not perhaps want to put all their eggs in one basket?

Thanks again,
John

prprandall51

16-03-2005, 03:45 PM

I was surprised to see that the M-class and Viano systems use TeleAtlas, but other models use NavTech. Confusion might reign supreme, but I suppose they do not perhaps want to put all their eggs in one basket?

Thanks again,
John

The choice of map data is often down to the systems supplier (Blaupunkt, Becker, etc).
Bosch (Blaupunkt is a brand name of Bosch) owns a large share of TeleAtlas, so there is a good reason for Blaupunkt systems to use TeleAtlas data (though Navteq has produced nav disks for a number of Blaupunkt systems).
Becker uses map data from Navteq and recently signed an agreement with TeleAtlas for their map data, too.
Philip

Mr E

29-03-2005, 01:04 PM

Just had an email through from the lease company about TMC in the car.....

MB are offering a £500 payment in lieu of the upgrade disc - the TMC-enabled disc will not be avalable for over 6 months and the logistics are easier for them to pay up £500 now than bear the cost of mailing £350 (so I've heard) discs at the end of the year.

I'm due to talk with the man from DaimlerChrysler tomorrow (he's on holiday today) but I must say that I've been very impressed with the tenacity of the lease company and the supplying dealer (especially when ther's not that much in it for them to supply a 3rd party leased vehicle).

Also, slightly OT, but the dealer in Brighton has been great. I'd had a bad time 5 years ago and went elsewhere, but the lease co book all the servicing for us and it went in a couple of weeks ago. Nice and painless - and they replaced the door sill plate kicked off by my daughter under warrenty while I waited. They also gave my son a nice wadge of the hard-back brochure "books" as well.............

Rory

29-03-2005, 02:00 PM

saorbust

29-03-2005, 06:42 PM

calum

29-03-2005, 06:45 PM

yeah, right :)

I note that the CLS lilterature spells out very clearly that DRG is not yet available in the UK

Mr E

30-03-2005, 08:57 AM

I doubt that the payment will go to everyone by default. Looking through some of the later documentation (i.e. after Feb, when I ordered the car) the availability was put into much greater question..........

The payment will be coming to me :D

The lease company's view is that I specified the vehicle, and am paying for the spec delivered. They won't want to recalculate the payments, and I'm the one who is inconvenienced.

The moral - as with most of these things - is to push the dealer and MB hard if you feel that strongly about it.

bobbyc

04-03-2006, 11:20 AM

Just thought I would give you my experience of the DVD based Sat nav fitted to my 2004 C220CDI Estate. I bought the car a year ago with 7000 miles on the clock, and was initially impressed with the speed of the DVD system after my previous CD system (C270CDI). I quickly discovered though that the system was inaccurate, in that if you put the screen display to greatest resolution, the arrow on the display "lagged" the actual position of the car when passing road junctions etc. I thought this was probably a calibration problem, and complained to MB. They told me it was a known fault and they were working on a fix.
Now a year on, I have just had a B service (50,000 miles) and told them I was fed up waiting for a solution, and planned claiming against MB for the faulty system. They decided to give me a new disc which is a Navteq version 2.2, Sach No 1695.010. A1698271659/05. It has no documentation.
The accuracy of the system is no better, and I suspect from reading this forum, that they have palmed me off with an old update, and not the latest version.
My old disc, (which they have taken) had no TMC in UK but worked brilliantly on my recent drive to Austria and back. It saved me huge amounts of time with a diversion around Munich, and appears to show yellow cars for slow moving traffic, and red cars for stationary. What a shame MB never give you adequate documentation on these graphics, and you have to guess how it is designed to work.
I am considering my next move.

Rory

04-03-2006, 01:26 PM

They decided to give me a new disc which is a Navteq version 2.2, Sach No 1695.010. A1698271659/05. It has no documentation.
Exactly the same thing just happened to me - I have an Oct 04 C270 which had V2.0 disk, and mis-announced roundabouts etc. I took it for a service a month ago and the dealer said it's a known fault and they would change the DVD. Great I thought, I might get V5 with TMC (OK, I was dreaming, but I thought I'd at least get 4.1). Imagine my dismay to find the disk was V2.2!
The dealer rang me a couple of days later to ask if the service was OK and I queried the disk version. The girl I spoke to knew V5 had been recalled (I was gobsmacked that she knew) and she said she assumed I'd be given the latest version when it was available!! Yeah, right. I'll try anyway - I like a good argument. :)
They also reflashed the AGW (audio gateway) but nobody I spoke to knew why. However I have noticed that I can cancel traffic announcements by tapping the TA button now, without it turning TA off completely. Previously 75% of the time it turned TA off, now it just cancels the announcment.

glojo

04-03-2006, 01:37 PM

The girl I spoke to knew V5 had been recalled (I was gobsmacked that she knew) and she said she assumed I'd be given the latest version when it was available!! Yeah, right. I'll try anyway - I like a good argument. :) .

Hi Rory,
I am asking a question here and NOT disagreeing with you. Does the C-class DVD have the same version number as its bigger brother the E-class?

I have no knowledge of when the C-class changed over and no knowledge of current versions. Hopefully you will widen my knowledge base.

Regards,
John

Trevor_Tyrrell

04-03-2006, 02:50 PM

glojo

04-03-2006, 03:10 PM

This is answered a number of times in other threads. There are 2 versions, on for A, B, C, ML and one for the E and above. One ends xxx89 and the other xxx90. Try a search for TMC or Navigation.

regards

TT

Does that mean you know the answer?

I can understand what your saying and I'm sure your right. I tend to try my hardest to answer folks queries rather than say search.

Still each to their own and off to search. Thanks for the xxx numbers.

John

Rory

04-03-2006, 06:27 PM

Hi Rory,
I am asking a question here and NOT disagreeing with you. Does the C-class DVD have the same version number as its bigger brother the E-class?

I have no knowledge of when the C-class changed over and no knowledge of current versions. Hopefully you will widen my knowledge base.

Regards,
John
I have seen comments that V5 is the same for both - but whether that means the DVD will work in either system, or the content is the same (I think the C and E versions previously listed different hotels/restaurants etc), I'm not sure.

glojo

04-03-2006, 07:22 PM

I have seen comments that V5 is the same for both - but whether that means the DVD will work in either system, or the content is the same (I think the C and E versions previously listed different hotels/restaurants etc), I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, or crazily?? I believe they are wrote by diffrent data suppliers. The E-class DVD system is older than that used in both the M and C-class, which is why I queried the versions number.

John

tvcam

05-03-2006, 05:09 PM

saorbust

05-03-2006, 06:06 PM

If this V5 version you are talking about opens up the Dynamic Route Guidance option in the UK for the new C Class and M Class, then I still believe there will be a UK TMC and Non TMC DVD versions and with a big price difference.

Don't agree. The costs are marginal. The new DVD costs 250 approx - considering you get the whole of Europe for this, its not bad value for money. Teleatlas charge £150 or so for the UK alone.

glojo

05-03-2006, 06:09 PM

Don't agree. The costs are marginal. The new DVD costs 250 approx - considering you get the whole of Europe for this, its not bad value for money. Teleatlas charge £150 or so for the UK alone.

I'm with you and is there actually a Version 5 that is on sale WITHOUT TMC?

And no, I haven't done a search to find out the answer :rolleyes:

John

calum

05-03-2006, 06:13 PM

V5 appearing reguarly on eBay now for about 120.

tvcam

05-03-2006, 06:18 PM

Member Quote:Don't agree. The costs are marginal. The new DVD costs 250 approx - considering you get the whole of Europe for this, its not bad value for money. Teleatlas charge £150 or so for the UK alone

So that is confirmed then, £250 for the DVD disc for the new C and M..?

I think the disc will be more like £340 for the Europe TMC without UK TMC, and £395 for the full blown TMC version including the UK

The reason I think this, is because in mainland europe access to the TMC coding is free. But in the UK, ITIS own the coding and relaese in under licence, so the UK users will have to pay where mainland Europe gets it for free...

.... and that's why TeleAtlas have to charge an extra £60 for the UK TMC version of their CD

Just looked on Ebay and the V5 disc selling is NOT for the new C and M class

glojo

05-03-2006, 07:10 PM

I still think there will be a non TMC version and a TMC version for the UK..

The reason I think this, is because in mainland europe access to the TMC coding is free. But in the UK, ITIS own the coding and relaese in under licence, so the UK users will have to pay where mainland Europe gets it for free...

.... and that's why TeleAtlas have to charge an extra £60 for the UK TMC version of their CD

Just looked on Ebay and the V5 disc selling is NOT for the new C and M class

Hi tvcam,
Have you any factual information for what your saying. I have a DVD Pioneer Navigation system in our 'stretched limo' and had to update the DVD to get it to receive TMC. I was lucky and purchased this DVD second-hand from Germany via Ebay. There certainly was no difference in what it could receive and there is no premium because I live in the UK.

I understand what your saying about the different coding being released under licence but that is not our problem. European E-class owners will be able to use TMC in this country with their version 5 DVD, and likewise if you only have version 3, it will receive TMC in European countries where we know it is free.

I have no knowledge of the C or M class, I have merely been told to do a search, but it is Mercedes-Benz that have to buy the licence from ITIS, not a particular model or piece of equipment. I have highlighted your 'think' remark only to remind me to ask is this your personal opinion, or have you some inside knowledge that states there will be two versions? (There is not two for the E-class range, unless you know otherwise? ;) )

Version 5 (again for the E-class) is on general release throughout Europe and we can purchase this DVD from any European country with the full knowledge that it will work in all European countries htat transmit the relevant information.

John

tvcam

05-03-2006, 07:26 PM

Its a know fact ITIS are the licence holders for UK TMC..

It does not matter where you live.. It depends if you want to use a disc with TMC coding for the UK.

UK TMC coding can only be accessed from a disc if the various Car Manufacturers are licensed by ITIS to access the UK coding, and if the coding is written to the disc.

Licensing is not required to access and use mainland Europe TMC, because its free to all. Where you live is of no concern.

So it follows, where TeleAtlas make their own brand of disc for Mercedes Benz CD Comands, they have to charge us an extra £60 for the UK TMC coding.

MB will have to do the same or not offer a non UK TMC version. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE

I dont know about after market Pioneer systems.. Maybe Pioneer have a license for UK TMC and the cost is built into the disc cost, so you dont see the TMC value.

I have just checked the ITIS web site and Pioneer are an authorised user of UK TMC

glojo

05-03-2006, 08:26 PM

So it follows, where TeleAtlas make their own brand of disc for Mercedes Benz CD Comands, they have to charge us an extra £60 for the UK TMC coding.

Hi tvcam,
I think you misunderstood my post. We totally accept ITIS are the licence holder for the TMC system in the UK.

I am merely saying that if you live in Germany and buy your NAVTEQ version 5 DVD why should you pay £60 extra for it to receive the UK signal?

Now before you pull your hair out and scream your talking about Great Britain.........

I, as an Englishman travel to Germany and buy the same DVD as my German friend. This DVD will be EXACTLY the same as the one the German bought from his local dealer. His DVD will work in Germany, my DVD will work in Germany. His DVD will work in Great Britain, my DVD will work in Great Britain.

If you buy the latest version 5 DVD for the E-class which is NAVTEQ it will have instructions in mutiple languages. The DVD is sold throughout Europe.

I hope I have explained myself and perhaps you can see why I queried your 'think' remarks.

I have NO knowledge about the Teleatlas C-class version so will not put my foot in the proverbial and comment about it.

Vrey kind regards
John

VBD

06-03-2006, 04:01 AM

The next Teleatlas version for the C, ML, Smart, A and B class is only now coming out (Version 6.1) and no there will not be an increase cost if you live in the UK because of TMC. The costs will be approximately the same as the previous version and pretty much uniform throught Europe(exchange rate will vary the price slightly).

Oh and by the way version 5.0 for the E class has not been officially recalled and is readily available throughout Europe, hence examples being sold on eBay. Incidentally the are some unofficial things available on the disc, like Greece being present even though they are not listed on the DVD cover itself.

Version 6.1 for the ML and the like, is due soon and yes it will have UK TMC on it, part number is as follows B67823641. You can check the availability, but expect a wait as stocks have not been built up as yet.

tvcam

06-03-2006, 08:17 AM

ITS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE UK..!!

UK TMC is not free no matter which country you buy a disc with it on..

But it just so happens that most of the sales of UK TMC discs will be in the UK and bought by people that live in the UK.. please..!!

It then follows, too buy a TeleAtlas Blaupunkt MB disc with UK TMC will cost you more than a non UK TMC version whether you buy it in the UK, Denmark, Germany etc. The extra cost is £60 or 90 euros.

TMC data, coding, and usage in mainland europe for all other countries other than the UK is given by their government departments free of charge to road users, even if you live in the UK and drive in their country and use their TMC...!!

In the UK, our government sold the UK TMC rights to the private sector after offering it free for three years to enable development of the system, and ITIS (Trafficmaster) now own it and license it to third parties.

MB have had a license since January 2005 but are sitting on their fat a**e taking over a year to get a product out.. and furthermore wont let NavTeq produce their own brand disc to run in DVD Comand, so MB have complete control on Comand DVD systems

And what is even more stupid, is that most people in the UK buying the DVD European disc at three times the cost of the CD discs will only use it in their own country... and at best may go outside the UK one or two times a year. Unlike mainland european drivers who cross country boaders more often..

That is most people, not everyone..!!

glojo

06-03-2006, 09:41 AM

And what is even more stupid, is that most people in the UK buying the DVD European disc at three times the cost of the CD discs will only use it in their own country... and at best may go outside the UK one or two times a year. Unlike mainland european drivers who cross country boaders more often..

That is most people, not everyone..!!

I am very sorry that you have completely failed to undrstand what is happening.

You have now been told the version for the M-class and the C is 6.1!!!!! You are also told there will be no price differential.

The statement you have made about buying the DVD at three times the cost of a CD is baffling?? The 211 DVD COMAND navigation system takes a dedicated navigation DVD!! It is NOT capable of playing a CD. There has NEVER been a navigational CD for the DVD 211 COMAND. earlier upgrade DVDs have cost in excess of £340, so this latest update is much, much cheaper (I suppose you knew that)

Our conversations are going round and round and enough is enough. :)

I have politely tried my best to explain that:

We accept that ITIS hold the licence for the TMC signal.

There is only ONE version of this new DVD for the 211 and it contains numerous update information. One line of programming on this DVD actually allows us to receive the TMC signal.

You can waffle on for as long as you want about two versions and that is your right, but there is only ONE. It is on sale even in Norway where they still do not have TMC information. Again it is the SAME version as the one on sale throughout Europe. :rolleyes:

PLEASE, please accept we have discussed this subject for a very long time, both soarbust and I have been in correspondence with Mercedes-Benz over this issue.

Finally..... I have always said that ITIS hold the licence!

Kind regards,
John

Ediot:(Freudian slip)

Just noted your comment about Navteq:

MB have had a license since January 2005 but are sitting on their fat a**e taking over a year to get a product out.. and furthermore wont let NavTeq produce their own brand disc to run in DVD Comand, so MB have complete control on Comand DVD systems

NAVTEQ do write Navigational DVDs but they are still model specific. Mercedes-Benz buy the mapping data and along with many other manufacturers then go onto to write their own disc (be they CD, or DVD) As previously stated I own the Pioneer system and the DVD for the Mercedes will not play in the Pioneer and likewise the Pioneer DVD will not play in the Mercedes. So are Pioneer as guilty as Mercedes-Benz?

Mercedes-Benz did indeed take a very long time to produce the DVD and it was a subject of one of my letters, but I would much prefer a delay rather than a recall which some members seem to take great delight in alleging.

I have also been in contact with NAVTEQ over their mapping data and found them to be most helpful, they listen and indeed act upon sensible information that is passed to them.

I would honestly welcome any factual comments you might have about the system as I do accept it is NOT perfect. There is a place for criticism and without it no one will ever move on to greater acheivement, but surely we must both accept that this criticism must be factual, and not what you 'think'

John

saorbust

06-03-2006, 10:38 AM

I am very sorry that you have completely failed to undrstand what is happening.

You have now been told the version for the M-class and the C is 6.1!!!!! You are also told there will be no price differential.

The statement you have made about buying the DVD at three times the cost of a CD is baffling?? The 211 DVD COMAND navigation system takes a dedicated navigation DVD!! It is NOT capable of playing a CD. There has NEVER been a navigational CD for the DVD 211 COMAND. earlier upgrade DVDs have cost in excess of £340, so this latest update is much, much cheaper (I suppose you knew that)

Our conversations are going round and round and enough is enough. :)

I have politely tried my best to explain that:

We accept that ITIS hold the licence for the TMC signal.

There is only ONE version of this new DVD for the 211 and it contains numerous update information. One line of programming on this DVD actually allows us to receive the TMC signal.

You can waffle on for as long as you want about two versions and that is your right, but there is only ONE. It is on sale even in Norway where they still do not have TMC information. Again it is the SAME version as the one on sale throughout Europe. :rolleyes:

PLEASE, please accept we have discussed this subject for a very long time, both soarbust and I have been in correspondence with Mercedes-Benz over this issue.

Finally..... I have always said that ITIS hold the licence!

Kind regards,
John

Ediot:(Freudian slip)

Just noted your comment about Navteq:

MB have had a license since January 2005 but are sitting on their fat a**e taking over a year to get a product out.. and furthermore wont let NavTeq produce their own brand disc to run in DVD Comand, so MB have complete control on Comand DVD systems

NAVTEQ do write Navigational DVDs but they are still model specific. Mercedes-Benz buy the mapping data and along with many other manufacturers then go onto to write their own disc (be they CD, or DVD) As previously stated I own the Pioneer system and the DVD for the Mercedes will not play in the Pioneer and likewise the Pioneer DVD will not play in the Mercedes. So are Pioneer as guilty as Mercedes-Benz?

Mercedes-Benz did indeed take a very long time to produce the DVD and it was a subject of one of my letters, but I would much prefer a delay rather than a recall which some members seem to take great delight in alleging.

I have also been in contact with NAVTEQ over their mapping data and found them to be most helpful, they listen and indeed act upon sensible information that is passed to them.

I would honestly welcome any factual comments you might have about the system as I do accept it is NOT perfect. There is a place for criticism and without it no one will ever move on to greater acheivement, but surely we must both accept that this criticism must be factua